Ansel
Well-known
I never found Apug to be a very friendly place. There was always a very vociferous minority trying to get people banned for one reason or another, as if they took pleasure from it.
Exploding heads over at APUG
- Thread starter Gordon Coale
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Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
One of the problems I have with digital prioritised sites is the style of photography that seems to dominate them ... which sounds a trifle snobbish I realise but the standard of photography here whether digital or analog is very good and not too cliched thankfully!
One site I was frequenting quite regularly a year or so ago was seriously into biscuit tin imagery ... it drove me away eventually.
One site I was frequenting quite regularly a year or so ago was seriously into biscuit tin imagery ... it drove me away eventually.
john neal
fallor ergo sum
I tried APUG a while ago, mainly because I knew a couple of other members and wasn't personally ready for the digital revolution - even went on a field weekend with them. Didn't last long, I didn't feel that I fit in with all the corset wearers 😉
raid
Dad Photographer
Intolerant Zealots ........ This reminds me of the elections in Iraq tomorrow!
jsrockit
Moderator
Well, in all fairness... it's an analog photography site. I kind of knew I didn't fit there so I never signed up.
Brian Legge
Veteran
Some key people at apug want a single forum dedicated to nin digital workflows. They set up dpug.org for people interested on digital and hybrid workflows.
I see nothing wrong with a community decision to focus a site on a particular topic. A lot of the people at apug are actually hybrid photographers but they follow the community wishes and don't discuss digital there.
The knowledge at apug is worth sticking around if the topics interest you.
I see nothing wrong with a community decision to focus a site on a particular topic. A lot of the people at apug are actually hybrid photographers but they follow the community wishes and don't discuss digital there.
The knowledge at apug is worth sticking around if the topics interest you.
Steve M.
Veteran
It's a site that has some photographers that really know their stuff. It's also a site that has some photographers that have an insufferable evangelical style. Sometimes their pronouncements sound as if they got them from an old guy on a mountain top w/ stone tablets under his arm. I understand their desire to keep digital out of the picture, but certain individuals carry it way too far. As Ken so rightly put it, it's fundamentalism at its worst. There are also some real cranky types that I have had to call out on their rudeness. Totally unnecessary behavior. Sorry, just because you know what you're talking about doesn't give you license to be a jerk.
I'm a member and subscriber there but probably won't renew due to the issues I and others have mentioned. Life is too short for that sort of foolishness. To be honest, I have improved my photography more by blundering along and making mistakes and keeping track of what went wrong. People here have been very helpful for those times when I was stuck, and I didn't have to make w/ some sort of secret handshake to talk with them. That sort of thing, figuring out stuff as you go along and experimenting, is frowned on. The mindset is that you HAVE to do things a certain way, or it's wrong. I have seen people argue for pages and pages about what a film IE technically is, when all the op needed to be told was to shoot a test roll at different exposures to find out what worked best for them. Fixing the problem often comes in a distant second to being right.
I'm a member and subscriber there but probably won't renew due to the issues I and others have mentioned. Life is too short for that sort of foolishness. To be honest, I have improved my photography more by blundering along and making mistakes and keeping track of what went wrong. People here have been very helpful for those times when I was stuck, and I didn't have to make w/ some sort of secret handshake to talk with them. That sort of thing, figuring out stuff as you go along and experimenting, is frowned on. The mindset is that you HAVE to do things a certain way, or it's wrong. I have seen people argue for pages and pages about what a film IE technically is, when all the op needed to be told was to shoot a test roll at different exposures to find out what worked best for them. Fixing the problem often comes in a distant second to being right.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
I do remember some years back Stephen suggested that people shouldn't post images from DSLRs in the gallery ... that surprised me at the time and thankfully I think he was just having a 'moment' .... and never really persued that line of thought! 😀
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
Just in case, do you know what APUG stands for?
It will be sad if it is going to be another forum where you would have to dig through digital poop.
If it is dpug, as separate forum, no big deal.
It will be sad if it is going to be another forum where you would have to dig through digital poop.
If it is dpug, as separate forum, no big deal.
Bill Clark
Veteran
Hi Gordon,
I was a member and found what you have said here to be true.
A forum develops, over time, a culture that in many instances can be very hard to change. The theme of the forum can be interpreted with different eyes but, ultimately, the head of the organization who assigns moderators usually determines what is allowed and what isn't.
Like my life, I like to operate with the vast area of grey that is allowed here, along with the black & white. OK I'm sorry I don't want to ignore those who make color photos! Ha!
A little common sense can go a long way.
I like it here. Many of us share the same values. And we can usually state things without getting into a tizzy over debates on topics. Maybe that says something about rangefinder members and our maturity.
This is an education forum for me and it's also a fun place to frequently visit.
I was a member and found what you have said here to be true.
A forum develops, over time, a culture that in many instances can be very hard to change. The theme of the forum can be interpreted with different eyes but, ultimately, the head of the organization who assigns moderators usually determines what is allowed and what isn't.
Like my life, I like to operate with the vast area of grey that is allowed here, along with the black & white. OK I'm sorry I don't want to ignore those who make color photos! Ha!
A little common sense can go a long way.
I like it here. Many of us share the same values. And we can usually state things without getting into a tizzy over debates on topics. Maybe that says something about rangefinder members and our maturity.
This is an education forum for me and it's also a fun place to frequently visit.
Michael Markey
Veteran
Paul Jenkin
Well-known
I used to participate, to a limited extent, over at APUG and, as there are some extremely knowledgeable people over there, I learned a bit into the bargain. However, as someone who doesn't have room for a darkroom any longer, it became pretty obvious that I was a square peg in a round hole and I had a brief dalliance on another site they set up called "DPUG" which is for digital and hybrid photographers. DPUG seems to still be up and running but, looking at the "latest" dates on the various threads, it isn't as widely used as APUG or RFF. Bit of a shame, I suppose, but it is what it is.
I suppose that APUG, which seems to only want those who are "analaogue" from negative to print, is entitled to enforce its ethos. My own two-penneth, not that it counts for much, is that the world is big enough for us all and pigeon-holing people only ever leads to disputes.
I suppose that APUG, which seems to only want those who are "analaogue" from negative to print, is entitled to enforce its ethos. My own two-penneth, not that it counts for much, is that the world is big enough for us all and pigeon-holing people only ever leads to disputes.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
Does it occur to you just how much of the imagery here is digital these days.
That slur really defined your attitudes and what you regard as important in imagery .... gear and medium!
erik
Established
I've been a member there for a decade, I think most people are fully aware of the contradiction. I would also say that I believe most people there do not have "intense hatred" for all things digital, many in fact use digital tools daily, often professionally. They are ok with scanning as a means to share, but they also share an appreciation and love for the look and process of film, plates, and paper. There are some cranky people there, but that is true on any forum.
I think RFF has evolved nicely, what seems great here is that it is centered around an approach to photography and to life really, that often (but not always) goes hand in hand with using a small range finder camera. It's gear based but not really about gear, if that makes sense.
Murray Kelly
Well-known
Yes. See #39. And yes to your second comment. Finally DPUG is a separate collection of fora.
Some of the comments here are tending to anti-digital 😱.
When I returned to photography after many years just staying alive and keeping the bills paid APUG was my film 'goto' place because everything had changed in 45 years away. RFF was my camera goto place. The head bartender even sold me a Bessa-R.
I didn't go to a digital forum because of nostalgia and that is probably the last reason to pick anything except if it's what you like. Even VLF (ooooops!) How many megapixels is that?!!
You'll get catty remarks here too if you stray. I've lived long enough to know that some people can't handle electronic communication and some are just like that in real life.
Some people have been banned from APUG but I'm not aware that that has happened in RFF. No names, no pack drill.
KM-25
Well-known
Perhaps consider the fact that your *very* first post on the site on a thread about Ilford's solid business model for analog products mentions:
"if they're looking for new ways to grow, perhaps they could develop a new digital b&w (repacking someone else's with a modified sensor).... there must be a lot of people who want a monochrom but can't afford it 😛"
Yeah, I am guilty as charged, I lay into people when they say things like:
"3. Film dies, everyone goes digital, digital cameras much better."
I use digital although it is quickly getting punted to make way for a new business model, so I am not cut out for these forums because I just can't take some of the BS that gets spread around. I mean, look at some of the things said on here:
You are not exactly raising your own game folks....I left there because I got sick of people bashing Kodak for no good reason at all, must be a web thing. I came back here because it seemed more balanced. I'll leave you to it, it's snowing outside and I can make some nice photographs with my 4x5...
willie_901
Veteran
Keith,
On Sunday someone on RFF stated/implied digital photography was not real photography.
Now it's poop.
But it's not real poop.🙂
Stay tuned as the definition for digital photography evolves.
FrankS
Registered User
I appreciate that there is a photography forum these days that is not mostly digital.
Imagine that there was a water painting forum (RFF years ago) that slowly evolved into a predominantly oil painting forum. (RFF these days) Water painters would look for a more relevant forum. For me, that's APUG. I miss the old RFF.
Imagine that there was a water painting forum (RFF years ago) that slowly evolved into a predominantly oil painting forum. (RFF these days) Water painters would look for a more relevant forum. For me, that's APUG. I miss the old RFF.
Sejanus.Aelianus
Veteran
It's good for spreading on your Second Life roses. 😉
Colin Corneau
Colin Corneau
Every place has its own merits. I've learned an enormous amount on APUG and it's highly useful - I've no problem with weeding out digital talk on a forum specifically devoted to film processes...as for threads that go against my approach, there's a simple remedy -- AVOID THEM.
As opposed to starting pages-long threads about them.
To be honest, this forum has its umm, quirks shall we say -- the endless whinging wanks found under Philosophy comes to mind...bleating about "what if this happens?", "do you like a black paint M2 or a black chrome M3" "blah de blah blah blah" instead of going out and making images.
However, there's more good than bad here and so I just avoid the things I don't care for...seems pretty straightforward, no?
As opposed to starting pages-long threads about them.
To be honest, this forum has its umm, quirks shall we say -- the endless whinging wanks found under Philosophy comes to mind...bleating about "what if this happens?", "do you like a black paint M2 or a black chrome M3" "blah de blah blah blah" instead of going out and making images.
However, there's more good than bad here and so I just avoid the things I don't care for...seems pretty straightforward, no?
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