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Tim Gray

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Hi, I know there are a million posts like this already, but I guess it would be nice to hear it myself. I'm looking to get a Leica M camera and lens and try out the rangefinder world. I've been shooting DSLR for about 3 years and have done a little bit of film work (which I really enjoyed). I love the DSLR (especially for macro) but I've noticed that I often don't take it with me due to its bulk. As a result, I'm looking into to getting an M.

So, what camera to get? I think I will primarily be using 50mm and wider (maybe 28 and 35). I'd like to start out with 1 lens (a 50 or 25) at f/2.0 to keep the cost down -- sure, I'd take a 1.4 if I found one for a good price. I'd love to have an MP, but that can wait till later. From my reading here, I've gathered that an M3, M4, or M6 classic would be the way to go to save a couple of bucks. For wide though, the M3 might not be the best choice. Which leaves me looking at an M4 or M6, the M4 being cheaper. Is this correct thinking? Whichever seems smarter, I would like a camera that doesn't need a lot of work to be in good mechanical shape -- I'm not too particular about looks.

If I could get out with a lens and camera for ~$1500, I guess I'd be happy. Where are good places to buy? I see some cams on ebay with acceptable prices (don't look too shady either) but would an ebay cam probably need $300+ worth of work to get in good order? Cams at the dealers all seem to run a bit higher. Once we're talking $1500 for an M6, I'd be tempting just to hold out for an MP around $2k... thus I'd much rather find a camera for $700-800.

Anyway, thanks for listening to me think out loud. Any comments or advice on what cameras or lenses to keep an eye out for and where to look would be greatly appreciated.
 
An M4 will not necessarily be cheaper than an M6, it all depends on the condition. I've seen very nice user M4s go for $800, and mint ones going for north of $1500. Only 58,000 M4s were produced, and the camera is considered the pinnacle of Leica's craftsmanship, so they will always have a collector status.

A good user to exc++ M6 will run anywhere from $900-$1300, but right now they are pretty low (seems many people are upgrading to MP or saving for an M8).

My advice: find a cherry M6 for around $1k, or really save money and find a nice user M2 for around $600. Since the M2 is not on your list, I'll say that is is as well made as the M4.

I'll let others advise you on lenses, but I'd suggest a used 50mm Summicron for around $650, or for an even better value, a 50mm Konica M-Hexanon for arund $350-$400 (if you can find it). Your budget of $1500 gives you lots of options for Leica and non-Leica glass as well as bodies.

E-bay is a fine place to buy if you are careful, but check the classified here or on photo.net, where these cameras and lenses are often for sale.
 
jja said:
My advice: find a cherry M6 for around $1k, or really save money and find a nice user M2 for around $600. Since the M2 is not on your list, I'll say that is is as well made as the M4.
Click to expand...

I forgot about the M2 - no real reason I didn't add that.
 
More options: Have you seen the Bessa R2M? $1050 for the camera w/ a collapsible 50/2 lens.

My first body and lens were an M2 and 50/2 Hexanon. I paid under $1000 for both. I later sold this set to one of the RFF members and he loves it.

If you are considering an M2 or an M4, you will be needing an external meter, so budget for one if you don't already have one, and consider if you will be slowed down or liberated by not havng an in-camera meter.
 
Suggestion - Consider the Minolta CLE. http://www.cameraquest.com/cle.htm

Go to KEH and look at the bargain graded Minolta CLE. That's $415. Then add the Ex grade 40/2 M-Rokkor for $299. Since you want to do wide as well as normal, then add the 28/2.8 M-Rokkor. This is a bit more expensive, but they list a bargain one for $465.

That's $1179 for the bundle. If you think you'd have use of a portrait lens, the 90/4 M-Rokkor labled Minolta is only $245 more in Ex+ condition.

You really can't find more bang for the buck; body & 3 lenses coveing the RF spectrum nicely for less than $1500.

William
 
RE: the external meter -- while it would be convenient to have a built in meter, I'm willing to forgo that if it saves me $100's - most likely it will make me a better photography, right? 🙂

RE: the minolta -- certainly a good idea. I think I'd like to go with a Leica for now. I will look around for lenses once a camera happens. To be honest, I don't really need or want a bunch of lenses at the moment; I've got enough to cover the spectrum on my SLR's and have been having more fun shooting recently while limiting my lens selection.

If there are M6's around for $1k, I'll keep an eye out for one. Sounds like an M2 is a good buy as well.
 
In my experience, an external meter has made me a better photographer. It forces me to think about the quality, intensity, and direction of light, and it allows me to think about composition without the distraction of diodes in the finder. YMMV, of course.

Since you mentioned fun, I'll add that the funnest lens I've owned is the CV 35/2.5 Color Skopar (around $250 for lens and m-adapter, new). Extremely compact and very easy to focus with its little tab (stub, really).
 
My experience with M's is this....

They will outlast any new DSLR that has been or will be produced in the near future. However, the real reputation is for Leica glass. It makes no sense in my opinion to buy an M and then put inferior glass on it. If this is not your lifes work than the ruggedness of the M body is not paramount. Remeber the body is really nothing more than a place to store your film.

Buy yourself a Bessa R2 or even one of the other Bessa's that have an M mount and then splurge on some Leica glass. Now your talking!!! Others will tell you that Voigtlander and Jupiter glass is terrific, but they would say differently if their wallets could afford otherwise. Take a look and you will find that Leica and Zeiss are second to none.

Good Luck,

Sherm
 
Thanks Sherm, but in my work sharpness is neither critical or necessary. I handhold at slow speeds anyway. I'm getting into the M system for the small size and silence of the body, the ability to see beyond the frame, hatred of my dSLR's tiny finder, and of course, the beauty of the camera itself. CV glass will be fine for me. I'm not going to be shooting newspaper against a wall with studio lighting.
 
Even though it's just a light-tight box to hold the film, there is something special IMO, about a Leica (and classic Nikon, Canon, and Contax RF's). They are jsut not built the same anymore.
 
FrankS said:
Even though it's just a light-tight box to hold the film, there is something special IMO, about a Leica (and classic Nikon, Canon, and Contax RF's). They are jsut not built the same anymore.
Click to expand...

AMEN! Truer words have never been typed! 😀 Or spoken!

I made the Leica plunge back in May after far too many decades of wishing, hoping, delay, etc. Best move I ever made. Not only am I using the M5 more and more, but I am using all of my gear (Canon SLR & RF) more and more.

It's difficult to go wrong with any Leica body. For a 50mm lens, it's difficult to find a better 50 for the money than the f:2.0 Dual Range Summicron. I know. I know. I'm beginning to sound like a broken record. Record? Wazzat?😀 Great lens.
 
sherm said:
Buy yourself a Bessa R2 or even one of the other Bessa's that have an M mount and then splurge on some Leica glass. Now your talking!!! Others will tell you that Voigtlander and Jupiter glass is terrific, but they would say differently if their wallets could afford otherwise. Take a look and you will find that Leica and Zeiss are second to none.
Click to expand...

Agreed. If I have a nice M though, when I finally graduate from this godforsaken hell that is graduate school, I can buy myself a nice new lens as a graduation present for myself 🙂

The girlfriend is a photographer/video artist. She won't necessarily get mad at me for buying a camera, so she'll just be jealous.

So... who wants to sell an M6 classic?
 
Concerning glass, look at these and decide for yourself. I was surprised how poorly older lenses, regardless of make, stood up here.
 
I forgot to add this. I will most likely buy cheaper lenses to experiment around with and have fun, but I would like to get a nice lens or 2 for my workhorses.
 
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