First M

Hi Tim and welcome to rangefinder photography. All of us who own and use Leica cameras likely agree that the Leica rangefinder has a feel that is unique and fabulous (Frank said it best). But I wonder: is it that you want to begin rangefinder photography in general or Leica M photography in particular? My first rangefinder camera was a Leica M2 with 50 collapsable Summicron. Very pure, very direct, and I learned a lot. But that was 1982 and I wanted a Leica. Today? I'd start rangefinder photography with a C/V Bessa R2 or R2M and a C/V 28 or 35 lens. They are an incredible value and quality products-I love the lenses. If you like RF photography, and I hope you do, then you can find an M6 (my favorite) or whatever else, with a 35 Summicron and either keep the C/V outfit or sell it to any number of RFF participants. Just a thought.
 
bobkonos said:
But I wonder: is it that you want to begin rangefinder photography in general or Leica M photography in particular?

Both 🙂 I don't mind spending a bit extra for a nicer camera. I'm certainly not ready to plunk down $2500 on a body alone. I'd be totally stoked to get a $400-500 body and have it be useable, but I don't particularly want to have to drop a couple hundred in getting it serviced right away.

As far as not buying a Leica, I feel like buying something you want instead of buying something you KNOW you will end up upgrading is a smart move. A rangefinder seems to be a pretty good fit with me right now since it addresses almost all of the problems I have with my DSLR (viewfinder, cropped sensor ruins my wides, bulk of camera, etc.) And ultimately if it's not a good fit, buying used means I only lose $100-200 when I sell -- I certainly have wasted more money than that doing other things 🙂
 
While I can't fault any of the advice/cost estimates already given, I would suggest you look for a fairly clean M4. Yes it will cost a couple of hundred dollars more but that's only about $0.25/day over four years. And the M4 should keep it's value better because of the aforementioned reasons. Unless of course you really prefer a built-in meter. Then it's the M6.

However, the lenses make the image. IMHO, a leica lens on a Bessa is a better choice than a CV lens on a leica body.
 
Frank:

I totally agree with you in regards to the quality issue, they don't build them like they used to and will never again( this is why I own an M2 amd a Rolleiflex 2.8) My reason for the post was to encourage a new user to walk before they run.

Roland: I also agree about the "Cosina" glass that you speak of. Iown the 25/4 Skopar and a 35/1.2

I must disagree however that it is a wallet issue, if it wasn't Cosina wouldn't have a market... the vast majority would buy the Zeiss or Leica glass. Let's be honest... the reason that Cosina uses the Voigtlander name is because it envokes classic German craftsmanship, not because it was an easier name to spell😀

Sherm
 
I would pick up on an earlier comment about the DR Summicron; either that or the rigid Summicron (same glass) are very sharp and 1/3 of the price of a modern Summicron. Maybe a little haze to fix (nothing that a $90 CLA won't correct) and you have a fantastic lens. Get the newest M you can afford which in this case sounds like an M6 (CLA longer into the future). Great kit!
 
I have an M3 and a 50mm Summicron 2.0 (rigid), both from the 1960s. One of the things I like about this combo is that a lot of very classic work was done with this camera and this lens. Mine is nowhere near that caliber, but it means that there are a lot of examples of what CAN be done and what to look for in my own images (not to copy, but to have a context in which to judge).

I only have the 50 and thus far I haven't really felt like I needed any other lenses. I might feel differently if I didn't really want to stick with Leica lenses that I can't afford. The camera was my father's, and I started using it in January. Sticking with one lens for now has allowed me to get a better idea of what I like and what I might look for if I were to get another lens -- I'd thought originally that I'd like go wider, but because of the way I use my M3 I now think I'd be better off with a decent 90, and I know I want lenses that are as fast as possible.

Since you've already been using a dSLR you probably have a better idea what size lenses you like. I didn't really start using my dSLR until after I'd been playing with the M3 for a while. It taught me that I don't compose well with a wide lens, or at least that I need to learn how to work with one better before I start thinking about spending money on one for the M3. They are very different cameras, though, with very unalike (for me) user experiences, and I probably wouldn't rule out any focal length (or decide on one) for the M3 unless I was able to actually borrow and try one on the M3 myself. I've been able to borrow a 90 on occasion, which is why I know that I like that length.

Also, congratulations on your impending graduation. I wish I could say that graduating made a positive impact on my lens-buying power, but it hasn't really.
 
sherm said:
My reason for the post was to encourage a new user to walk before they run.

Running is so much more fun -- it hurts so much more when you fall 🙂

MelanieC said:
Also, congratulations on your impending graduation. I wish I could say that graduating made a positive impact on my lens-buying power, but it hasn't really.

I'm sure my graduation won't either. Impending for means 6-12 months anyway. But after 5-6 years of this, I feel like I will have earned a little splurge on myself (which is actually what this camera is). Anyway, I'll have to make more than I do now, right? Right?

An older Summicron sounds just about my speed. I agree with a lot of the things you mentioned. I'm sure my compositional skills need improvement and I think a 50 will be just about right. The 50 on my 1.6 crop camera is annoying so I've been using my 17-40 zoom a lot more, which ends up being ~28-60ish. Hence the forecast that I will enjoy a 35 or 50. Anyway, as you say, the 50mm is a classic and should be enough to keep my hands and mind full for quite some time.

This forum really is excellent. I'm amazed at the quality of responses you guys have given me in such a short amount of time for such a newbie question. Thanks!
 
Tim

Hope you're well. I have had a 1992 M6 for about nine months. Although I prefer the look of say the M2, I use an M6 because it has a meter. I use slide film and I find guessing a decent exposure for slides is tricky without a meter. If you use b/w, a meterless camera like an M2 might be right up your street. It's also much easier to paint a M2,3 or 4 🙂

As for a lens, my opinion is that for your first lens you should choose a focal length that feels best on YOUR camera, to your eye. Having used a Nikon 35mm 1.4 on my Nikons for ages, I bought a v4 35mm Summicron before I bought the camera, thinking the camera/lens combination would be "the same" as the Nikon. I have since found out that a 50mm suits my view better on my .72 M6. Someone else might think completely differently.

I bought my camera and lenses on ebay and have been very pleased with everything I've bought there. My 50 is an Elmar-M and I love it. I suspect most 50s, including old Elmars, Jupiters and all newer lenses will give you great results at normal print sizes, no matter which you pick.

A nice case from Luigi is a great addition too. I've got one of the cheapest ones with the little padded hand grip and it makes the camera easier to hold sturdily IMO.

So my advice is is to get a camera first, then go to a camera store or borrow a lens off a member for a few days and go for what lens feels best. I will probably sell my 35 in time and buy a 24/25mm to go with the 50.

Hope that's helpful.

Paul

BTW I paid about 1200 euro for my 99% mint M6 on ebay.
 
My suggestions -

Camera: M2
Meter: Sekonic L308
50mm Lens: Summicron DR, Rigid, or Elmar (recent)
35mm Lens: Summaron f/2.8 (or f/3.5 if you don't need the speed)

Richard

P.S. It never made sense to me to buy a Leica camera and put cheap glass on it. It makes more sense to buy a cheap camera and put Leica glass on it. (See RichardM's post.)
 
irees said:
Are you a PhD student as well?

Yep.

Thanks again for all the suggestions. I'm sure I'll end up with one of the cameras suggested -- it all depends on what comes around for what price.
 
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