GaryLH
Veteran
When I read the positive comments in this thread and see similiar ones in other forums after people finally took the plunge when the kit price dropped to all time low of 299..
It makes me wonder.. Did Canon miss read the market and overprice it...given the specs it released with? If they had shipped the fw fix for the faster af speed would that have done it?
The way I c it that 22mm lens is a steal at 299 let alone getting a camera body.
Even though I am not interested in getting a Canon EOS M, I really hope they stay in the market... More competition and different features and functionality is good for all of us consumers....
Gary
It makes me wonder.. Did Canon miss read the market and overprice it...given the specs it released with? If they had shipped the fw fix for the faster af speed would that have done it?
The way I c it that 22mm lens is a steal at 299 let alone getting a camera body.
Even though I am not interested in getting a Canon EOS M, I really hope they stay in the market... More competition and different features and functionality is good for all of us consumers....
Gary
dfatty
Well-known
Yes, but boy -it works well.
I need to make some more adjusting tests, based on my early results. That said, I believe there is something special here.
i wish you didn't tell me that, lol.
yeah, like i said, i'm surprised how much i'm liking the eos m. i have an OMD but for some reason i'm having more fun with the M. i was using Canon way before m43, maybe i'm just more used to it. i miss the IS on the OMD though, and the lens selection.
GaryLH
Veteran
GaryLH
Veteran
Lol. If the lens had been a 27 pancake and the price 299.. I would have traded in my rx100 as well..
I really think Fuji missed the boat by not marketing two different kits for their new xm1. Have the xm1 w/ both the 16-50 and the 27 as kit lens. I might have bought an xm1 w/ the 27 and put my 40 ovf on it.
Gary
I really think Fuji missed the boat by not marketing two different kits for their new xm1. Have the xm1 w/ both the 16-50 and the 27 as kit lens. I might have bought an xm1 w/ the 27 and put my 40 ovf on it.
Gary
dfatty
Well-known
i think it's probably the sensor that's attracting me. as good as the omd sensor is, the iq doesn't seem as full as apsc. the output from the eosM is very similar to the canon apsc dslrs i've used, which is probably why i'm liking it.
just tried trashcan to center the AF, thanks!
good to hear more lenses are planned, that will be great. hopefully they can figure out a way to make relatively fast pancakes in 50 and 85 equiv.
gary, i don't know that canon mispriced it, at least compared to what m43 bodies are going for. but certainly the slow AF hurt it, as did a general notion that the lenses wouldn't be much smaller than ef or efs lenses. for example the 18-55 ef-m isn't much smaller than the ef-s version. at least that's what i was thinking when it was full price.
i still love foveon, but during the week all of my shooting is in low light, which the foveon just isn't good at without the blue channel processing. it's nice to be able to just grab the eosM, shoot at iso 3200/6400, and get a nice output without any processing.
GaryLH
Veteran
Yeah I know what u mean..
I grab the Fuji when I know I need high iso.
In terms of the lens size issue.
The problem is the required image circle size for a apsc size sensor w/ built in af motor is going to drive a lot of the basic lens size.. Look at the super thin Nex camera body vs size of their lenses.
If u are looking for smaller lenses, the m43 or 1 inch sensors are the ones to consider. W/ of course some overall iq trade off.
Gary
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dfatty
Well-known
yup, right on about the image circle, which is why i was drawn to m43, i knew apsc would always have large lenses. but i'm hoping canon can innovate in the pancake lens area. my brother shoots pentax and i was always envious of his pancake lenses. i'm waiting for canon to make some 1.4 pancakes and some super collapsible zooms that collapse to pancakes 
BlackXList
Well-known
I was all set on an EOS M, 22mm and the EF adapter thanks to this and other threads, I really like the shots I've seen, and it's essentially an APSC sensor for my EF lenses, plus a 35mm prime!
I don't think film is going anywhere, but I have a nagging feeling about future proofing my workflow.
I currently shoot a 1dmk2 for "work" stuff, and film on the street, so a small box with an APSC sensor in that I can chuck in a camera bag is very attractive. (and the 22 f2 lens is a very nice deal sweetener)
Sadly in the UK the prices are staying much higher than 299, this lead to me having a play with the EOS100 today. I believe it's the same sensor processor, and whilst I'd much much rather have the 22 f2 than an updated 18-55 kit lens, I have to admit that it's a nicer camera than I'd expect from it's place in the range.
Can anyone give any feedback on how the AF is using the EF adapter and EF lenses, because I have to admit the 100d was pleasantly swift
I don't think film is going anywhere, but I have a nagging feeling about future proofing my workflow.
I currently shoot a 1dmk2 for "work" stuff, and film on the street, so a small box with an APSC sensor in that I can chuck in a camera bag is very attractive. (and the 22 f2 lens is a very nice deal sweetener)
Sadly in the UK the prices are staying much higher than 299, this lead to me having a play with the EOS100 today. I believe it's the same sensor processor, and whilst I'd much much rather have the 22 f2 than an updated 18-55 kit lens, I have to admit that it's a nicer camera than I'd expect from it's place in the range.
Can anyone give any feedback on how the AF is using the EF adapter and EF lenses, because I have to admit the 100d was pleasantly swift
dfatty
Well-known
As I mention above the AF wasn't so great with the EF 35/2 or the Sigma 30/1.4. Otoh, Jeff seems happy with the EF 40/2.8 on the eos M.
I expect the 100D (SL1) will definitely have faster AF, it's really just a small version of their dslr. But I think even more importantly, to me the EOS M is not a great platform for EF or EF-S lenses because it's so small. It's fine for pancake lenses, but most EF and EF-S lenses will seem awkward on the EOS M. At least to me.
All that said, the EOS M with the 22mm pancake is very good. I'm hoping Canon will make other pancake primes for it, even the EF-M 18-55 seems big on it. I'm used to m43 lenses though so it might just be my perception of it.
burancap
Veteran
That pretty much sums my experiences so far. Without getting into too much detail (which I hope to do in a later post), I think as can be expected -the kit lens is very good, the adapter and the small pancake 40 EF is about equal. I tried a 24-85 EF and though it worked -it was slow and cumbersome in early tests. The larger EF lenses can block the FA light in low light and that makes them near unusable unless manually focused. Two things I have picked up (low light) is to use a single AF point, and to disable the continuous AF -otherwise it tends to hunt and hunt. Regarding manual adapters (Leica M) and zooming -I have not found any easier way than cycling to return to full view. It would be nice if a half depress on the shutter would return it so you can quickly compose and shoot. More later as I have time!
Mackinaw
Think Different
I bought an EOS-M with the 22mm lens a few weeks back when B&H was having their fire sale. Yesterday, I shot a model friend of mine (mainly with my Leica MP) and took along the EOS-M just for the hell of it. I took this pic using the in-camera "grainy B&W" creative filter. I was actually surprised with the result (meaning, I like it). The camera's a champ too. Small, pocketable, very impressive build quality, great image quality, etc. For $300.000 USD, the camera was a steal.
JIm B.
JIm B.
BlackXList
Well-known
Thanks for the feedback guys.
Sadly I think the impressively small 100d/SL1 will be more adaptable with my current set up, which is a real shame because I really like the output of that 22mm.
I shall have to do some thinking.
Sadly I think the impressively small 100d/SL1 will be more adaptable with my current set up, which is a real shame because I really like the output of that 22mm.
I shall have to do some thinking.
burancap
Veteran
Just me, but I think if you are already a Canon D/SLR user -one of the attractions is the different format of the M.
I actually back-ended into their D/SLR products by way of the M (all in the last week). A bit opposite I suppose!
I actually back-ended into their D/SLR products by way of the M (all in the last week). A bit opposite I suppose!
BlackXList
Well-known
It is seriously tempting, and as the 35mm focal length is a weak point of mine, it's extra tempting as a way to work on that weakness.
I use the 1d for work stuff and shoot a lot with it, the rest of the time I usually have an EOS3 with me (the viewfinder is almost exactly the same, and the controls very similar, so I don't have to "where's x on this camera again?" using it.
I also have a bunch of lower spec EOS models to use as second bodies, or if I don't feel like carrying the 3 around.
For some reason I've got a bit twitchy about film, and future proofing my workflow recently. I'm not expecting film to vanish, I'm just looking to protect my workflow, I have stocks of all the batteries my SLRs take, and spare bodies for some of them, so it's overprotectiveness on my part.
I know using the 100d/SL1 would be exactly the same experience as the 35mm rebels I have, and therefore there isn't really any doubt about the "user experience"
The M has the huge appeal that it's tiny, and can be chucked in a bag alongside other gear and not take up a ton of space or add a lot of weight.
I really like the thought of the M with the super light 50 1.8 on it, I've seen it pictured, and while it looks front heavy, I'm not seeing that as a problem.
my main query is the AF speed with the adapter and EF lenses (and the AF Assist light turned off).
In the UK the 100d body only is about £440 or £499 with the new kit zoom, and the EOS M is around the same price.
At the kind of close out prices that it's been going for in the USA it's a no brainer (especially with the exchange rate), but here it's a different story.
I use the 1d for work stuff and shoot a lot with it, the rest of the time I usually have an EOS3 with me (the viewfinder is almost exactly the same, and the controls very similar, so I don't have to "where's x on this camera again?" using it.
I also have a bunch of lower spec EOS models to use as second bodies, or if I don't feel like carrying the 3 around.
For some reason I've got a bit twitchy about film, and future proofing my workflow recently. I'm not expecting film to vanish, I'm just looking to protect my workflow, I have stocks of all the batteries my SLRs take, and spare bodies for some of them, so it's overprotectiveness on my part.
I know using the 100d/SL1 would be exactly the same experience as the 35mm rebels I have, and therefore there isn't really any doubt about the "user experience"
The M has the huge appeal that it's tiny, and can be chucked in a bag alongside other gear and not take up a ton of space or add a lot of weight.
I really like the thought of the M with the super light 50 1.8 on it, I've seen it pictured, and while it looks front heavy, I'm not seeing that as a problem.
my main query is the AF speed with the adapter and EF lenses (and the AF Assist light turned off).
In the UK the 100d body only is about £440 or £499 with the new kit zoom, and the EOS M is around the same price.
At the kind of close out prices that it's been going for in the USA it's a no brainer (especially with the exchange rate), but here it's a different story.
dfatty
Well-known
I initially got the eos M thinking it would be good to use with the smaller canon EF lenses, but now that I have it my thinking has changed. It's output is as good as Canon's other apsc cameras and it's a fun camera in its own right especially with the 22mm, and that's really where it excels. I suppose it could be a backup-of-last resort if the AF is good enough. I keep meaning to try it with more EF lenses but haven't gotten around to it, partially because I stopped viewing the M as an EF body. Most of my testing has been in lower light, perhaps it's better in good light.
Too bad on the price in the UK. You're right, here it's almost a no brainer. There are a lot for sale on eb*y US, perhaps that's an option. Or amazon US.
Too bad on the price in the UK. You're right, here it's almost a no brainer. There are a lot for sale on eb*y US, perhaps that's an option. Or amazon US.
dfatty
Well-known
interesting
interesting
so i tried out the EF 35/1.4 and 85/1.8 on the eos M. and to my surprise they work pretty well! and this is in a pretty dimly lit room where i'd have to use iso1600 at a minimum to get decent shutter speeds. and this is without AF assist, which i generally have off. fairly fast AF and no real hunting until i try to focus on iso6400 low contrast stuff without a lot of edges.
and something i didn't expect at all - it wasn't that awkward. don't get me wrong, the lenses look funny on the eos M, lol. but their larger size (than the sigma 30 and canon 35/2 i used before) actually lets you just hold the lens and basically let the body hang off, and then you only have to lightly grip with your right hand and press the shutter release.
just tried the 24-105 and it's acceptable, but slower than the 35 and 85. but this was again in pretty dim light, and it's an f4 lens - i suspect it will do better in good light.
so i have to take back what i said before, the eos M may be useful for certain EF lenses. i would have no issue with the AF speed of the the 35/1.4 and 85/1.8 on the eos M, it is a totally different experience than with the previous lenses i tried.
interesting
so i tried out the EF 35/1.4 and 85/1.8 on the eos M. and to my surprise they work pretty well! and this is in a pretty dimly lit room where i'd have to use iso1600 at a minimum to get decent shutter speeds. and this is without AF assist, which i generally have off. fairly fast AF and no real hunting until i try to focus on iso6400 low contrast stuff without a lot of edges.
and something i didn't expect at all - it wasn't that awkward. don't get me wrong, the lenses look funny on the eos M, lol. but their larger size (than the sigma 30 and canon 35/2 i used before) actually lets you just hold the lens and basically let the body hang off, and then you only have to lightly grip with your right hand and press the shutter release.
just tried the 24-105 and it's acceptable, but slower than the 35 and 85. but this was again in pretty dim light, and it's an f4 lens - i suspect it will do better in good light.
so i have to take back what i said before, the eos M may be useful for certain EF lenses. i would have no issue with the AF speed of the the 35/1.4 and 85/1.8 on the eos M, it is a totally different experience than with the previous lenses i tried.
burancap
Veteran
Thanks for the update. Sounds more promising than my early tests with EF, but my results were with a 24-85 indoors at night. The weather here has been terrible the last few days and the only Canon gear I had 'til this week was an old AF35ML! My mentioned "cumbersomeness" should not be considered fair under those circumstances. I can't wait for the rain to go!
BlackXList
Well-known
from the shots I'd seen of it with EF lenses it looked like a cradle the lens and just have a wrist strap on the camera set up would be the way I'd be going too, and that does have an appeal.
I think for now I'm going to be keeping a look out for places trying to shift stock or used ones, as I'd love to try one but nearly 500 for something I have so many questions about is making me wince
I try to avoid ebay, it's a well of temptation that I try to tell myself doesn't exist haha.
I think for now I'm going to be keeping a look out for places trying to shift stock or used ones, as I'd love to try one but nearly 500 for something I have so many questions about is making me wince
I try to avoid ebay, it's a well of temptation that I try to tell myself doesn't exist haha.
David_Manning
Well-known
Glad there are some serious discussions still going on about this little jewel. I'm going to Paris tomorrow, and I'll be taking the EOS M along with a Leica M9...an "M" duo, I guess you could say.
burancap
Veteran
Indeed! Thanks for starting the thread.
Well, I did get out a bit today. Grey and overcast, but at least natural light. I still feel the 40 pancake with adapter stays right with kit 22 regarding focus, maybe a tad behind. I like it though as it is not that much bigger than the kit 18-55 and is just as blisteringly sharp as the 22. These two give me 35 and 64 equivalency primes and I can pocket the whole deal with cargo shorts. Very happy!
On to the EF, other than the 40 -all I have is the aforementioned 24-85. While admittedly regarded as a very middle-of-the-road lens on full frame, it has had some new found love with crop sensors. The focus is clearly a bit slower, but not terrible outdoors. I was able to bounce fairly quickly to infinity and back with the lens always locking on. Keeping in mind that the EOS M is not really that much of "snapshooter" and using it more like a Sigma DP with measured effort -I think the EF concept is great. I was very pleased with the results.
The Canon world is literally all new to me, and I am thrilled to have made the leap. BTW, the other gear I picked up was an EOS 3 and a 5D. Hopefully I will have more EF lenses to test soon!
Well, I did get out a bit today. Grey and overcast, but at least natural light. I still feel the 40 pancake with adapter stays right with kit 22 regarding focus, maybe a tad behind. I like it though as it is not that much bigger than the kit 18-55 and is just as blisteringly sharp as the 22. These two give me 35 and 64 equivalency primes and I can pocket the whole deal with cargo shorts. Very happy!
On to the EF, other than the 40 -all I have is the aforementioned 24-85. While admittedly regarded as a very middle-of-the-road lens on full frame, it has had some new found love with crop sensors. The focus is clearly a bit slower, but not terrible outdoors. I was able to bounce fairly quickly to infinity and back with the lens always locking on. Keeping in mind that the EOS M is not really that much of "snapshooter" and using it more like a Sigma DP with measured effort -I think the EF concept is great. I was very pleased with the results.
The Canon world is literally all new to me, and I am thrilled to have made the leap. BTW, the other gear I picked up was an EOS 3 and a 5D. Hopefully I will have more EF lenses to test soon!