For legacy lenses - NEX, Pen or Lumix?

[Dante_Stella]

Yeah... I totally missed that port. Thought the pictures with the flash showed a built-in unit.

What I didn't miss was the massively fast frame rate on manual focus... the flip screen is actually pretty neat, too. Just waiting on a third-party NEX to standard hot shoe converter!

I have already ordered a Hexanon M43 adapter and will probably get an NEX one too to try out the various bodies.

Dante

Dante, the NEX series has an accessory port on top that accepts various accessories, and I assume there will be an EVF at some point.

For me, the crop factor and sensor performance was the biggest deal in me picking the NEX-5. If I do need to shoot at eye level, I use a Clearviewer, which works rather well as an EVF alternative, and folds nice and flat (and folds out of the way of the tilt lcd.) The camera's new firmware makes the UI much more usable, as well.

 

[Warren T.]

Hi Dante, I'm in the same boat. I'm going to try to wait until the Nex prices come down, which looks to be soon. The sony site has both lenses with the nex 5 for $799, but I plan to use MF lenses only, and definitely would not want to use the kit zoom.

The u4/3 at $299 (GF1) and EPL1 at $399-$499 often with 2 lenses is certainly attractive, but if you pixel peep, or stop down, you'll see the u4/3 IQ is just not up there.

I follow a blog where a GF1 user posts weekly or so, and almost all of his shots are overly sharpened, and have diffraction, I think he stops down, and then uses sharpening in pp, but I have a high ppi monitor (wsxga+) on 14" giving > 130ppi and it's just horrible IQ.

Ted, please PM me the link because I'm curious to see what you're looking at (or is it my blog you're referring to?)

thanks,

warren

 

[Jamie Pillers]

Dante,
I was over at the local camera store fiddling with a NEX 5 camera. It does have an accessory port, and the salesman told me what I've also read on the web: Sony will be selling an accessory EVF for the NEX cameras early next year. The accessory port is located under the flap on the top of the camera and is the same port you'd plug their flash into. So if you're using the EVF, you wouldn't be able to use a flash, and vice versa.
Jamie

 

[hub]

Dante,
I was over at the local camera store fiddling with a NEX 5 camera. It does have an accessory port, and the salesman told me what I've also read on the web: Sony will be selling an accessory EVF for the NEX cameras early next year. The accessory port is located under the flap on the top of the camera and is the same port you'd plug their flash into. So if you're using the EVF, you wouldn't be able to use a flash, and vice versa.
Jamie

To be honest, Sony missed a sale with me since they didn't even have the optical viewfinder for me to try in their Sony Style store - unless I wanted to buy it -. So I wouldn't bet on the EVF until it actually is available. But that's just me.

 

[douglasf13]

Sony Style stores aren't great for camera buying. They rarely have much camera equipment at all. You'd probably be better off at a real camera store. I wouldn't let a retail employee affect your camera buying decisions.

 

[hub]

Sony Style stores aren't great for camera buying. They rarely have much camera equipment at all. You'd probably be better off at a real camera store. I wouldn't let a retail employee affect your camera buying decisions.

And the one I went to don't have it. They only carry PowerShot. But it does not matter, I have an E-P1 and am very happy with it.

 

[blacvios]

+1 for Panasonic G1 solid EVF

Combine with good glass, this is what you get. No that sharp but good enough.

You want crisp sharpness, need to up a level, CZ T* to be exact

,,,

 

[GoneSavage]

I have and E-P2 and have shot manual focus lenses with it almost exclusively for almost a year now. Here are my thoughts:

- the viewfinder is fantastic. Focusing a 35/1.2 or 50/1.4 presents no problems.
- the viewfinder is necessary. The olympus screens are not a high enough resolution to reliably focus fast lenses wide open without using the magnify function.
- ergonomics are below average. I find the grip of the E-PL1 to be much more comfortable with heavier lenses (the E-P2 is fine with small m4/3 lenses though)
- iso performance is acceptable, but not outstanding.

Overall, my only serious complaint is with the sensor size. After using an m4/3 camera for a year, I've started to notice a "cropped" look in almost all of my images that is very unsatisfying. There is a certain harshness in the rendering of an m4/3 image that I don't see from larger sensor formats: even when shooting fast lenses wide open, the depth of field seems unnatural and uninviting. This has been bothering me a lot lately.

 

[gekopaca]

• The nex is the worst because it's hideous, there's no finder, and the menu interface is silly. You might buy that one only if you really need use your lenses wider as possible.
• The pen seems to be intersting because the cheap price, the look, and the I.S., but they are not :
- The additional EVF is really expensive, then the total price is ≥ Lumix GF1,
- About the look like, in few months you will find new (Panasonic, Ricoh, Epson, Oly?) "Leica like" M43 cameras on the market,
- With M43 cameras you need to shoot always in RAW, in order to correct eventually the weak dynamic range (specialy in high light), and you can use a lot of really fast lenses : that's why image stabilization never need to be used.
• Panasonic offers (currently) the most important choice of M43 cameras, and the second-hand market is pretty intersting for two of them :
- the G1, the oldest model. It's complete (viewfinder and very good 14-45 kit lens), but no video.
- the GH1, IMO the best one, could have a hacked firmware (GH13) making it a video killer, but its price is shuting down because the GH2 was just released.
About the GF1, it's a very good camera, but new models coming soon will make it very old.

Conclusion : I'm really agree with Gone Savage about the "cropped" look of M43 pictures, and the unsatisfying feeling.
That's why I think it's an interesting format only if :
- you shoot rather closely, with very very fast lenses (because of DOF)
- You use lenses you have already,
- you like video capabilities of that sort of hybrid cameras
- you have got an other "major" camera (In my case an Epson R-D1) to keep pleasure about photography.

 

[pvdhaar]

• The nex is the worst because it's hideous, there's no finder, and the menu interface is silly..

The bad rep of the NEX menu interface isn't entirely deserved. It's not so bad in my view; it's just very, very different from what most are used to.

Sure, I was also confused initially by the menus and lack of dials. But after a week, I'm starting to see the logic about the clustering of menu items and the way the items are 'sticky' to the central button and control wheel. I've found it's 'magically' always the most crucial setting for each mode or for switching between modes. I'm not entirely certain that what I've set in the menus actually influences what's tied to the control buttons at that point, but it does feel like that. Still, it doesn't hurt to go through all the menu options and set them to match your shooting style. I guess that most prospective buyers don't have the time to go through this process when handling the NEX for a couple of minutes in a shop.

As for the lack of finders, there's one (optical) for the 16mm. I've no clue whether an EVF is in the works or even possible; the electrical connections in the accessory port now drives the flash. Maybe it can do more than that. I'm not sure if I'd get an EVF though. One of the main attractions of the m4/3 EVF's is that they can tilt so that you can shoot with the camera below eye level. The NEX has a up/down tilting LCD to do things like that.

 

[berlincontemporary]

I have both Panasonic GF1 and a Sony NEX.

The GF1 wins in handling but the tight crop factor that will (sort of...) turn a 35mm lens into a 70 (!) is a deal breaker for me. I am using the GF1 with the Panasonic 20/1.7 and this combo is sweet. Its not sweet with vintage lenses.

Now the lesser crop factor is where the NEX wins and it does affect every focal length, not just wide angle lenses. I agree to the statement that the menu system is *different*, it´s not awkward though, pretty usable once you figured out how it works. No big deal, so dont let the "bad menu" talk stop you from trying one.

Preset AUTO ISO and all you could want is accessible with one button. There is also one dedicated (!) manual assist button that magnifies the center of the screen. This is essential for manual focus lenses and works fine.

The tiltable LCD is also a nice feature missing on the GF1.

On the other M43 cameras I cant comment. The bigger Pannies are butt-ugly and the crop factor problem applies to any of them.

 

[kevinparis]

any discussion about what camera is best has to be balanced against what photos you aspire to take.

I own an e-p1, a e-510 and a canon 5r mk2... I take photos for my own pleasure.. i dont pretend or aspire to be a 'professional' photographer.
each camera has its own use... i choose the camera to meet the occasion.... e-p1 for street and everyday, 510 for events and 5D for well... not sure i have grown into that yet.

I use lots of lenses from the finest Leica and contax to native lenses on all platforms... all work in the right context

there will always be new cameras coming along... but i will bet that none will ever be gamechangers...unless geckopaca has an inside ear beyond the rumour sites then his dreams will remain that.

for those of you who get annoyed at the 2x crop... then go buy something else... otherwise learn to work with the tools you have and actually take photos not gripe about them.

in the end its what other people think about the photo thats important not you

 

[douglasf13]

I like the NEX-5 with rangefinder glass so much that I sold my fullframe DSLR. For those that need an EVF, the Clearviewer works great with the Sony's high res LCD. It's a great find for $50.

 

[bigeye]

Surprisingly, there doesn't seem to be a completely practical solution. The M9 has been out a year and the NEX and Sony Alpha signal what will come.

I'm still waiting for no crop factor constraint, not from an IQ standpoint (APS quality is fine for these camera's purpose), but from the offset in focal length. I am content with my old lenses.

All I want to do is swap film for a sensor, please keep away the DVD controls. A digital M3... the M9. I guess the solution is not to wait for the copycats, but to work harder...

- Charlie

 

[j j]

I went for a Samsung NX100. I wanted an APS C sensor and the 30mm f2 appealed. I intended to use legacy lenses, but the 30mm is so good I have used that all the time and kept my legacy lenses on the film cameras. Very happy with my choice.

 

[Benjamin Marks]

Dante: I use the EP-2 with the Konica AR lenses and the EFV. In fact, I picked up four of these lenses for about $50 each -- I think the guy who sold them to me thought he was ripping me off. But they are fantastic lenses; absolute stunners.

I went with the Oly because of in-body IS and availability of the EVF. I think I would have chosen the NEX if they had had an EVF, but with increasingly middle-aged eyes, chimping with anything other than an ultra-wide just won't work, and I can't focus a 40/1.8, a 50/1.4 or that amazing 57/1.2 wide open at arms' length. Notwithstanding the NEX's large chip and reputed high ISO performance, its mesh of ergonomics, the laws of optics and the age of my eye-balls killed it dead. The Oly in-body IS mitigates the high-ISO trade off somewhat. Keep in mind that almost all the lenses I use on it are manual focus. I only use one AF lens on the thing: the 17/2.8, and that rarely. Available adapters allow use of Pentax screw-mount, Konica AR, Leica M, R, LTM, Nikon-S, Contax, Nikon F-mount, you name it.

Ben Marks

[Edit: actually it is Konica AR lenses]

 

[Dante_Stella]

It ended up being the NEX - because I found that the Retina-style display was actually good enough to focus fairly sharply. And being able to assume a triangular support on the camera with the screen flipped up makes things very, very stable.

Detailed writeup here: http://www.dantestella.com/technical/nex.html

The M-Hexanon lenses work amazingly on this camera. Still waiting on an AR adapter, but it's winter here...

Best,
Dante

 

[kshapero]

No shoe for flash or EVF.

fair enough, but I haven't needed a flash yet what with the NEX's excellent High ISO IQ. The EVF is definitely not needed. The LCD is just plain awesome.

 

[kshapero]

I like the NEX-5 with rangefinder glass so much that I sold my fullframe DSLR. For those that need an EVF, the Clearviewer works great with the Sony's high res LCD. It's a great find for $50.

Maybe so but I have no trouble using the NEX LCD as is. Plus this Clearveiwer looks cumbersome, but to each their own.

 

[ampguy]

great review!

great review!

Great review!!

It's interesting how many great things initially get terrible reviews ...

It ended up being the NEX - because I found that the Retina-style display was actually good enough to focus fairly sharply. And being able to assume a triangular support on the camera with the screen flipped up makes things very, very stable.

Detailed writeup here: http://www.dantestella.com/technical/nex.html

The M-Hexanon lenses work amazingly on this camera. Still waiting on an AR adapter, but it's winter here...

Best,
Dante