G11 and S90

[Harry Lime]

Scale focusing on the m43 cameras is not an issue if you're willing to give up AF. The problem is that you can only have one option in a compact system. You either use M or LTM lenses and get easy scale focusing (the DoF markings are just about perfect for m43) or you use an AF lens and have to rely on AF or manual focusing via the EVF/LCD.

I shoot a fair bit of scale focused work with the G1.

Sure, you can scale focus the M43 bodies, if you mount a manual focus lens via an adapter (Leica M etc), but out of the box and with the native lenses there is no functionality for this. You can't preset focus to let's say 2.5 meters, like you can with a GRD, Leica X1 or even the s90...

I'm really frustrated by the fact that pretty much all manufacturers have completely abandoned scale / zone focusing, in favor of AF. Can't we just have both?

 

[Harry Lime]

Bill -

Now, that a few weeks / months have passed, how is that S90 working out for you?

How is the shutter lag (if you preset focus)?
Any quirks worth mentioning that you have discovered?

I need a very small camera that will essentially fit in a shirt pocket and I'm looking at the S90. I would get a GRD III, but the 28mm is just too wide for me. At least I can set the S90 to 35 or 50mm...

thanks

 

[Bill Pierce]

Both the G10 and the S90 are working out. They are pretty much the cameras which are with me on the street.

Lag isn't that bad when you prefocus. With a little anticipation, moving subjects are pretty much where I want them in the finished picture. But, remember, the easiest, quickest way to prefocus is to find something at the correct distance, lit the same, and hold the button halfway down. This isn't always possible.

That said, I've used a variety of small cameras on the street and these have been the best for me. That's just my take. There are plenty of people who will disagree with me and have another favorite.

I think eventually there will be something with a C sensor that's an adequate street camera. I think we're headed in that direction. That would certainly please me. But for now, these two cameras are producing excellent images as long as I can use low ISO's.

 

[Harry Lime]

Thanks, Bill. I think I'm going to go for the S90, because it really will fit in a shirt pocket. I played around with it in the store and came away impressed. I'm reading the manual right now to get a better idea of what it offers.

A friend of a friend may have one I can borrow for a few days to give it a closer look, but so far it's the front runner.

thanks again.

 

[john_s]

There are a series of articles about the S90 here:

http://enticingthelight.com/2009/11/09/review-canon-s90-part-1-first-impressions/

In part 2 there are some tips about manual focus and presetting a preferred manual focus distance in the C (custom) setting. This has made my use of the s90 much more enjoyable.

 

[Bill Pierce]

There are a series of articles about the S90 here:

http://enticingthelight.com/2009/11/09/review-canon-s90-part-1-first-impressions/

In part 2 there are some tips about manual focus and presetting a preferred manual focus distance in the C (custom) setting. This has made my use of the s90 much more enjoyable.

John - Many, many thanks. This is an excellent reference.

 

[victoriapio]

Back to Bill's original question..
I think this thread has raised two interesting points:

1. Working photojournalists (newspaper/wire services) not only have used PSs but will continue to do so given the size, improving image quality relative to the needs of their employer, improving handling, and improving video quality. As a point of support, in April 2009 I attended the 30-year class anniversary of my Photojournalism Class at the University of Texas. Three classmates and staffers at the Austin American Statesman (Larry Kolvard, Jay Godwin and Becky Scoggins) had Canon G9s slung over their shoulders. Their working bags were in the car but the G9s were with them 24/7 according to Larry, and for pre-scheduled assignements they were a viable option in many cases, versus the DSLR. These guys/gals shoot everyday and must produce a useable image every time they are given an assignment. They are willing to work around a camera's faults to get an acceptable image and see the cameras as recording tools, a perfectly logical relationship IMO.

2. Just as interesting has been the reaction of non-professionals who find all sorts of features to criticize in PSs versus the Leica. The relationship between the camera and photographer is much different here. Cameras appear to be elevated to more than tools with this group. In some mysterious, emotional way the camera is an extension of the photographer's mind, almost to the point that if there is a break in the link between the photographer and the camera, suddenly photography is not possible. It is almost as if the photographic process is as important as the image itself. Fine, more power to them.

I appear to be following a path similar to Harry Lime's and probably many more photographers out there. I have made the transition from 1 to 2 and feel that the Leica M9/M8 is indeed my system of choice whenever possible. But the Leica system has faults and occasionally I miss having a DSLR in my hand. OR A WELL-DESIGNED POINT-N-SHOOT! Which is why I too am searching for the best PS I can find for those times when a rangefinder will not work. I am confident that at some point there will be a nice PS created that has all the features I am looking for, from wonderful prints at 24x30, to sharp lenses with character, to complete aperture control, blah blah blah. We are getting closer to it every day.

 

[Harry Lime]

>http://enticingthelight.com/2009/11/...t-impressions/

That's great, thanks.

 

[Harry Lime]

We are getting closer to it every day.

I hope.

So, far I think Ricoh got it mostly right with the GRD III, but the darn thing has a 28mm, which really isn't for everyone. It it was a 35 or 40 it would be golden.

The DP2s has the right lens, a big sensor, good scale focusing and a hot shoe for a viewfinder, but it's got a whole different set of issues. This is the one camera I want to test before I put money down for the S90. I can live with a lot of quirks as long as it will scale focus properly and has minimal shutter lag.

The G11 looks really good, but it's too big for what I want.

What is really frustrating is how even Leica of all companies doesn't seem to have been able to get it completely right with the X1 (besides it being far too expensive...)

All I really want is a CL-D. Stick a good APS-C sensor in it and call it a day. Why is that so hard?

 

[Jamie Pillers]

The Samsung NX10 and, hopefully, its mirrorless APS-C competitors will likely be as close to the CL-D/APS-C idea as we're going to get, IMO. I'm VERY much looking forward to seeing this idea take off.

Back in 2007, when I joined RFF, I said that there would be this type of camera in about 5 years. It looks like the small camera manufacturers are going to beat that by at least a year! 🙂 The EVF has really accelerated the development of these types of cameras.

 

[Harry Lime]

Apparently the EVF in the Samsung NX10 is still sluggish, which is a deal breaker.

EVF in general is a bust for action work, unless someone decides to crank up the frame rate to a point where it exceeds the reaction time of the human muscle system.

 

[Harry Lime]

Bill, is it true that you mounted a hot shoe to the tripod mount of the S90 and shoot the camera upside down with a brightline finder?

 

[Bill Pierce]

The DP2s has the right lens, a big sensor, good scale focusing and a hot shoe for a viewfinder, but it's got a whole different set of issues. This is the one camera I want to test before I put money down for the S90.

Harry -

I have a DP2. It's an interesting, infuriating camera with real limitations. It's capable of beautiful images - especially if you are, say, a landscape photographer fine tuning the low ISO image, checking the histogram and the preview and then refining the shot. I wouldn't recommend it for the street. There it will drive you nuts.


Here's a pretty intelligent review.

http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2009/05/sigma-dp2-review.html


Oh, and I'm still trying to figure out how to make really big prints from its raw files. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. I know this has a lot to do with Foveon sensor. But if anyone has really investigated this, I'd love to hear from them.

 

[Bill Pierce]

Bill, is it true that you mounted a hot shoe to the tripod mount of the S90 and shoot the camera upside down with a brightline finder?

Yes, and it's also true that people around me say, "Poor old man. He's obviously demented. He has no idea he is holding his camera upside down." This is actually much to be preferred over their saying, "Don't take my picture." and hitting me.

 

[Harry Lime]

Harry -

I have a DP2. ... I wouldn't recommend it for the street. There it will drive you nuts.

No store around here seems to carry this silly camera, so it's impossible to try it. Two weeks ago a Sigma rep was at a store with some demo bodies. But the battery was dead.

rats.

I've read some pretty brutal reviews about the camera and most seem to revolve around the slow AF, slow write speed, ridiculous menu system, lousy battery life, crappy LCD screen and noise above 800asa.

I keep telling myself that if I can simply scale focus the darn thing to 2.5 and 5 meters and pop off one shot at a time like I do with a Leica I'll be ok. The shutter release is supposed to be quite crisp, so that's good news. Put the viewfinder on top and I am in business. But I would like to get my hands on one before plunking down cash.

Here's a pretty intelligent review.

http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2009/05/sigma-dp2-review.html

Oh, and I'm still trying to figure out how to make really big prints from its raw files. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. I know this has a lot to do with Foveon sensor. But if anyone has really investigated this, I'd love to hear from them.

Silkypix appears to do a good job with the Foveon files. There's also a new version of SSP out...

 

[Harry Lime]

Yes, and it's also true that people around me say, "Poor old man. He's obviously demented. He has no idea he is holding his camera upside down." This is actually much to be preferred over their saying, "Don't take my picture." and hitting me.

Do you remember this guy?
;-)

 

[Harry Lime]

I came across two asccessories for the S90.

One solves the problem with the command dial on the rear, which appears to be pretty lose. Very clever solution, but nothing you couldn't make with a protractor and a sheet of styrene plastic...

http://tinyurl.com/36ngwg8


The other adds the ability to add 37mm filters.

http://tinyurl.com/377kd6g

http://tinyurl.com/2vmtglf


Hand grip. I'm thinking a piece of grip tack would also do the trick...

http://tinyurl.com/32nmn4r

 

[Bike Tourist]

Well, I guess the S90 makes images as good as my iPhone for web use or up to 8x12s.

I should point out, though, that the iPhone also checks emails and surfs the web and serves as an organizer, a stopwatch, a weather forecaster and . . . oh, I forget all the other stuff. Oh, yeah, it's a phone.

You may now ask, and rightly so, just what, exactly, is my point. It's that when I fully recover from the shock of getting rid of my D700 for an M6TTL, and when I get more than just one lousy lens for it (despite the snob appeal of one lens kind of like riding a one-speed bicycle) I will probably want a digital camera again. OK, so I want one now but can't afford it. When I do think meself ready for a digital camera again, I want one which will outperform my iPhone to some substantial degree.

 

[emraphoto]

Harry -

I have a DP2. It's an interesting, infuriating camera with real limitations. It's capable of beautiful images - especially if you are, say, a landscape photographer fine tuning the low ISO image, checking the histogram and the preview and then refining the shot. I wouldn't recommend it for the street. There it will drive you nuts.


Here's a pretty intelligent review.

http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2009/05/sigma-dp2-review.html


Oh, and I'm still trying to figure out how to make really big prints from its raw files. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. I know this has a lot to do with Foveon sensor. But if anyone has really investigated this, I'd love to hear from them.

i actually found the dp1 and dp2 to be quite good in the streets. i set them up in manual focus and use the little wheel on the back with distance scale. shutter lag is non existent and with the hot shoe finder it is a pretty decent rig. of course all the caveats are true... terrible battery life, clunky menus, auto focus from the 90's etc. with that being said, for a turn everything off an just snap it works pretty well in my hands.

 

[JohnTF]

Last fall I picked up a G9 from a friend trading up to a G10, then he sold me the G10.

I did find while spending a few months out of the country, that the G9 did a lot of what I needed, it is a smallish camera with a viewfinder, and first prints are very good up to larger than I normally print, 11x14. I had a couple of 13x18 prints made, and am pleasantly surprised.

I eventually worked through the controls (you know, if you are over 50 don't buy a digital watch unless you have a kid around to set it for you) so I could work the adjustments I cared about, was easier than most.

It is kind of an in between camera, it is too big for all but the largest of pockets, the sensor is not huge, the lens not really fast, but for a "got it with you camera" you can certainly get some decent shots you would not get if you were trying to rely on something in the size range of the iPhone, but it works.

I can see how this could evolve in to what a smaller Leica once was.

I did have my M8 with me, but for casual walking around, I tend to want to carry a few lenses with the M8, so if it is not a dedicated shooting trip, I was relying on the G9.

I had some shirts made of denim for strength, and had the pockets made for what I thought I needed. Funny thing about design, you do not normally get it right the first time, but perhaps the next time I can get it closer, with some deep pockets with secure snaps to hold a few lenses and spare batteries. Right now the G/9/10 is a start on having a camera with me more often, and the next shirt may have a pocket for it.

Regards, John