Has Leica alienated photographers?

[user237428934]

Reference the first post in the thread, then reread the post you just responded to. I wasn't talking specifically about special editions.

Who cares about the first post from 2015? The thread already moved away from that topic in circles a long time ago. Sorry, I only read a continuous rant about special editions in your posts. Go on, I won't discuss this any further.

 

[tunalegs]

Who cares about the first post from 2015?

Anybody who cares about the context of something they're replying to? I was referencing the topic of this thread in the post you responded to.

Yes, it is a marketing move in the sense that it offers a product for sale. So what? If it sells, it it a correct marketing move. What puzzles me is why it should jog the jealousy nerve on some people.
Those are the kind of people that agonize that they cannot afford a pair of Zai Spada for Antione skis, a Trophy wife, or a Blancpain Millenium watch.

I suspect you may be projecting a little much. 😀

 

[airfrogusmc]

Point me to the threads about silly special editions from other companies.

PS: OP was more about value for money than outright affordability. There's a fundamental difference there.

Most of the others produce nothing remotely collectable. Point me to any other maker that makes a 135 format B&W only digital camera that is a true rangefinder.

Value for money? When has Leica ever been that? I remember when M was more than double the piece of the top-o-the line nicanons. How long did it take Leica to put a meter in an M and M is still manual focus (thank gawd)?....I bought Leica M for what it is and for what it doesn't have. To many look at the camera now like a car. The bargain is the one with the most bells and whistles. Well I don't want or need all that stuff so cameras like the MM M-E , M 262 and M-D are great alternatives to the gadget heavy options that everyone else makes.

 

[ajramirez]

fair perhaps, accurate no.

After this thread became very popular I added the poll - the OP did not.

The order of choices indicate nothing in terms of preference, only choices.

After the thread became more developed, I added the last poll choice.

I am surprised, and frankly quite disappointed, that the owner and head moderator of this site would kindle the flames of a thread that is clearly very polarizing and has no other purpose than pitting forum members against each other.

And, given how absurd it is that grown men (women seem to be a lot smarter) argue about things that are absolutely unimportant in the greater scheme of things, and frankly, being a bit ashamed that I participated in it, I'm signing off for good from this thread.

 

[airfrogusmc]

I say find something that works for the way ones sees and works and don't worry about what works for others and if that company makes specialty products to help their bottom line, why should anyone care? Apparently Leica has managed to stay in business and I believe that some of these collectables are all part of it and if it allows them the freedom to make a camera I can't get from anyone else and fits the way I see and work then way to go Leica.

What I don't understand is the hate from some about a camera? Don't like it, don't buy it, end of story. Find what works and be happy for your choice. I know I am...

Almost forgot

 

[Godfrey]

I am surprised, and frankly quite disappointed, that the owner and head moderator of this site would kindle the flames of a thread that is clearly very polarizing and has no other purpose than pitting forum members against each other.

And, given how absurd it is that grown men (women seem to be a lot smarter) argue about things that are absolutely unimportant in the greater scheme of things, and frankly, being a bit ashamed that I participated in it, I'm signing off for good from this thread.

.. and particularly when the subject of this vilification is the ONLY current producer of the rangefinder cameras, both film and digital, that the entire forum is supposed to be dedicated to supporting and furthering. This makes no sense at all.

I'm with you, alramirez, and will no longer look at this thread.

G

 

[CameraQuest]

I am surprised, and frankly quite disappointed, that the owner and head moderator of this site would kindle the flames of a thread that is clearly very polarizing and has no other purpose than pitting forum members against each other.

And, given how absurd it is that grown men (women seem to be a lot smarter) argue about things that are absolutely unimportant in the greater scheme of things, and frankly, being a bit ashamed that I participated in it, I'm signing off for good from this thread.

No, the purpose is to discuss. RFF is a discussion forum. Things are discussed.
Views are on both sides of the question and just about everywhere in between.

The interest shown in this thread shows that, indeed,
there is something in the OP's original post that is of interest to RFF members.
I was surprised it took off the way it did.

The poll is just another way to look at this discussion approaching 600 posts.

 

[oltimer]

Stephen, actually I have enjoyed reading this thread, and wondered when someone was going to start, especially with the word "Alienated" in it's 1st title. Back years ago we had only Shutterbug, but with the Internet coming on in the 90's; I wonder if all these new digitals would have taken off like they did?

 

[thawkins]

When you buy a new Leica, 90% of the purchase price is for the name!!

 

[airfrogusmc]

When you buy a new Leica, 90% of the purchase price is for the name!!

Show me another FF 135 format B&W digital rangefinder? There isn't one so apparently it isn't 90% name. 😀

 

[______]

As I have posted elsewhere, the forum posts follow Newton's Third Law: for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. So when a well-known member says that owning a Leica is less expensive than owning a horse, a decent sailboat, or a classic car, and that those whose choice of camera is not a Leica for the reasons stated can't afford one, and are just jealous like men who can't afford trophy wives, you should expect a little push back. It is not surprising that a trophy wife comment is met with a trophy camera response, and it escalates from there.

 

[Fraser]

When you buy a new Leica, 90% of the purchase price is for the name!!

Not sure about 90% maybe 60%😉

 

[airfrogusmc]

What I don't get is why is Leica M the one to alienate photographers when the big two top of the line cameras are just as pricey? Do they not also alienate photographers? In fact the M 262 is a less expensive option. I think all this digital equipment is expensive but it is what it is. Pick what you like to work with. Why should anyone worry about what anyone else shoots with or if a particular product alienates? Just don't buy it is you don't like it. In my opinion they all (high end digital cameras) have alienated in some way because of price. But again let's not forget a time when Leica M was over double the price of nicanons top-o-the-line cameras. So maybe Leica digital M is now the bargain?

 

[user237428934]

As I have posted elsewhere, the forum posts follow Newton's Third Law: for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. So when a well-known member says that owning a Leica is less expensive than owning a horse, a decent sailboat, or a classic car, and that those whose choice of camera is not a Leica for the reasons stated can't afford one, and are just jealous like men who can't afford trophy wives, you should expect a little push back. It is not surprising that a trophy wife comment is met with a trophy camera response, and it escalates from there.

Can you even excuse a statement like this one with your theory?

When you buy a new Leica, 90% of the purchase price is for the name!!

 

[airfrogusmc]

Not sure about 90% maybe 60%😉

I didn't buy for the name but for the tool. Every other Leica owner I know did the same. I have shot with (film) Deardorff, Horseman, Calumet, Leica film cameras, Canon F-1s, Nikon F-3s, Hasselblad 500 C/Ms, Mamiya RB & RZ, Bronco, (digital) Nikon, Canon, Fuji, Sony and my choice now is Leica M because it best fits with the way I see and work. Not because of the name. Sure their are those out there that buy because of the name. Especially collectors that buy collector cameras but the Leica owners I personally know bought for the tool.

Read this. I have a pretty good explanation of why I shoot with Leica M
http://blog.leica-camera.com/2016/12/15/spontaneous-relationships/

 

[______]

I didn't buy for the name but for the tool. Every other Leica owner I know did the same. I have shot with (film) Deardorff, Horseman, Calumet, Leica film cameras, Canon F-1s, Nikon F-3s, Hasselblad 500 C/Ms, Mamiya RB & RZ, Bronco, (digital) Nikon, Canon, Fuji, Sony and my choice now is Leica M because it best fits with the way I see and work. Not because of the name. Sure their are those out there that buy because of the name. Especially collectors that buy collector cameras but the Leica owners I personally know bought for the tool.

Read this. I have a pretty good explanation of why I shoot with Leica M
http://blog.leica-camera.com/2016/12/15/spontaneous-relationships/

Do you use Leica M for all of your work, including for your commercial clients, or just for your "spontaneous relationship" work.

 

[______]

Can you even excuse a statement like this one with your theory?

There are irrational statements on both sides of the discussion.

 

[nikonhswebmaster]

They exist on RFF, and I have posted in them before. I don't know what you're trying to get at though. And I don't know why I'd be expected to discuss topics on RFF, when they're hosted on other sites either, so I'm not sure why you gave those links.

Well that makes two of us. I have no idea what you are even talking about at this point, but no matter, I no longer own any Leica cameras.😕

 

[airfrogusmc]

Do you use Leica M for all of your work, including for your commercial clients, or just for your "spontaneous relationship" work.

I sold all my DSLR stuff over a year ago and I am all Leica M.

M 262, M-E, MM, 35 Lux FLE, 35 Biogon C, 75 Summarit 2.5, 24 Elmarit 2.8.

Kept my studio strobes, 4 white lightning 1200s and a couple of travelite 750s and have a couple Leica SF 58s for portable work.

Absolutely NO REGRETS....

I also plan on picking up another 262 maybe in the fall if not earlier.

 

[uhoh7]

When you buy a new Leica, 90% of the purchase price is for the name!!

More than 90% of this statement is balderdash 🙂

You really think there is a 90% profit margin on the M262? Do you understand the concept of economy of scale?

I'd bet the margins on the Sony A7r2 are much higher.

Finding a good digital Leica has never been cheaper. And the dollar has never been worth less.

When the M9 first came out the price complaints at least were understandable. There was no other choice for FF M. Many could not afford one, some could not find one. Today you can get a perfect M9 for 2500. A M240 for 3600. If you look. MM or M246 also easy to find.

It's funny about the bashing. 1) They are no good! 2) I can't afford one!

Believe whatever you like. Facts on the ground are pretty clear. Leica is still here after many years, making what many of us love.

It's a good thing some of you people don't see it. Prices would be higher 🙂