tbhv55
Well-known
Backalley's experience is almost identical to mine, except that I didn't return to the shop until about two weeks later. Likewise, most of my other kit (Canon) is hardly used now.
Vincent.G
Well-known
The X100 was good enough for me and I sold my D700.
CK Dexter Haven
Well-known
I remember going to B&H, excited to check out the new (at that time) Olympus Pen and other m4/3 cameras. I had read so many posts about how wonderful they were. But, ick. It only took a minute of futzing with them to know they weren't right for me.
I've had a few other small digitals that were highly-regarded (Panasonic LX3, Canon s90, Sigma SD-something, and Ricoh GR-d), but, each for only a couple of months. They do whatever they do, pretty well, in a relative sense.... But, i just hated holding and using them.
I know these things are 'compacts,' but why aren't manufacturers building MORE into them? Not in terms of features, but in terms of FEEL? They really are just electronic gadgets. And, while i do loves my gadgets, they have to be engineered by someone with a certain sense of 'the sensual.' Apple does it. I remember, on that same day, (almost) liking the Samsung NX10. It felt and worked more like a real camera than the others.
I wish compacts could feel like a Rollei 35, Contax T2, Contax G2, Nikon FE2.... Metal. Dense. REAL. I don't want a Playstation 3 controller with a glass bit on the front.
That said, i sorta felt similarly unenthused with the Leica M8 when it was current. I went in expecting it to feel like an M7. Disappointing - both in the sensual aspect as well as the operation.... At some point, i'll have to adapt. But, it will always feel like a compromise when i have an F100 and FE2 in the bag.
I've had a few other small digitals that were highly-regarded (Panasonic LX3, Canon s90, Sigma SD-something, and Ricoh GR-d), but, each for only a couple of months. They do whatever they do, pretty well, in a relative sense.... But, i just hated holding and using them.
I know these things are 'compacts,' but why aren't manufacturers building MORE into them? Not in terms of features, but in terms of FEEL? They really are just electronic gadgets. And, while i do loves my gadgets, they have to be engineered by someone with a certain sense of 'the sensual.' Apple does it. I remember, on that same day, (almost) liking the Samsung NX10. It felt and worked more like a real camera than the others.
I wish compacts could feel like a Rollei 35, Contax T2, Contax G2, Nikon FE2.... Metal. Dense. REAL. I don't want a Playstation 3 controller with a glass bit on the front.
That said, i sorta felt similarly unenthused with the Leica M8 when it was current. I went in expecting it to feel like an M7. Disappointing - both in the sensual aspect as well as the operation.... At some point, i'll have to adapt. But, it will always feel like a compromise when i have an F100 and FE2 in the bag.
dogbunny
Registered Boozer
This quote is equally as funny if you substitute the the words "digital camera" for: computer, car, tv, microwave, refrigerator.
I just don't think that stuff exists anymore...except maybe a cast-iron fry pan--if you buy a good one, it should be the last you ever buy. Even the most expensive cameras have a shelf life. I guess it depends on whether you keep it on a shelf or not.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Also depends on how old you are...
But plenty of people buy cars for decades, and possibly for life. They're just quite expensive (Bristol, Bentley, Morgan...)
Cheers,
R.
N
Nikon Bob
Guest
If you are predisposed to not liking digital, not liking EVFs and not anything that is not a Leica M you are just doomed to walk away. The only cure would be to shell out for an M9 but then that too is digital. I did manage to get an X100 in my hands and thought I could easily get used to it, even thought the EVF was very decent. No I did not buy one having other priorities at the moment. It sure is on the short list for a lightweight camera sometime in the future.
Bob
Bob
bhop73
Well-known
I just got my X100 yesterday. Yes there are little quirks to get used to, but I can already tell i'm going to like this camera.
I don't care for the EVF, the optical finder is why I wanted this camera compared to ANY other 'affordable' small digital camera. However, the EVF isn't useless it seems, it's used for macro or focusing closer than the OVF limit. I can't stand using LCDs to compose my shots, and there simply is no other pocketable digital camera with a better viewfinder that also has amazing image quality. Hopefully my opinion won't change within the next few weeks.
I don't care for the EVF, the optical finder is why I wanted this camera compared to ANY other 'affordable' small digital camera. However, the EVF isn't useless it seems, it's used for macro or focusing closer than the OVF limit. I can't stand using LCDs to compose my shots, and there simply is no other pocketable digital camera with a better viewfinder that also has amazing image quality. Hopefully my opinion won't change within the next few weeks.
I lost interest in the X100 after reading RFF member's experience with Manual Focus on the camera. My thoughts were- great camera, great hardware, lots of potential, all screwed up by the firmware.
Not sure if the camera will be discontinued before the waiting list grows short, but I doubt the firmware will ever meet half the potential of the camera. Now- if they go open source for the firmware, and I can take over writing it, I would buy one. THEN we would get decent manual focus.
Not sure if the camera will be discontinued before the waiting list grows short, but I doubt the firmware will ever meet half the potential of the camera. Now- if they go open source for the firmware, and I can take over writing it, I would buy one. THEN we would get decent manual focus.
NickTrop
Veteran
C'mon - who hasn't had the experience of being "underwhelmed" when they meet the real thing in person? For the poster it's the X100.
Steve Bellayr
Veteran
Gear I handled but did not have the right Zen: Nikon F5, Canon G10, Leica D-Lux 4.
How come everyone is underwhelmed or overwhelmed?
How many have just been whelmed by the X100?
How many have just been whelmed by the X100?
back alley
IMAGES
i'm just very pleased with the images it can produce.
David_Manning
Well-known
I travel for a living. I've been bringing along an M6 and single 35mm Biogon lens for space-saving considerations. In the back of my mind, however, I always dreaded the trip to the lab, or all the time spent timing, or worst of all, scanning.
The X100, when introduced, seemed to me to be perfect for travel...about like my M6 but without the film post-production.
After waiting and waiting...I bought one, sight unseen. And guess what? I'm whelmed
It's not perfect, but no single camera is. It's much more pleasant to travel with than say a dSLR like my 5DII or previous D700, but it's image quality is on par with the D300 I used to have (but better in low light).
I'm glad I have it. I work with it like I did my M6...except the focus is faster
The X100, when introduced, seemed to me to be perfect for travel...about like my M6 but without the film post-production.
After waiting and waiting...I bought one, sight unseen. And guess what? I'm whelmed
It's not perfect, but no single camera is. It's much more pleasant to travel with than say a dSLR like my 5DII or previous D700, but it's image quality is on par with the D300 I used to have (but better in low light).
I'm glad I have it. I work with it like I did my M6...except the focus is faster
Archiver
Veteran
Not the X100, but I had a weirdly similar experience with the Leica M8 and the MP.
A few years back I was a dedicated DSLR shooter, although I had a Zeiss Ikon and several compacts. I held a M8 in the shop and it didn't do a thing for me. It even felt a bit wrong somehow.
Yet a few years later, I held a M8 and suddenly it felt right! That lead to the purchase of a M9.
Likewise, I handled a chrome MP and it didn't do a thing for me. Last year I handled a M7 after several months of M9 ownership, and it felt right, so I bought it. Now I imagine that I'd feel similarly if I had a MP.
As far as a camera that will last goes, I think it's pretty obvious now that this is becoming less and less likely with technological advancement. Cameras are simply not designed for lifetimes of decades any more. Electronics will become harder to repair, specialized parts can't be fabricated.
The romantic notion of a 'camera for life' is best left with film cameras, no matter what Leica's current marketing for the M9 says.
willie_901
Veteran
Not A Firmware Issue
Not A Firmware Issue
I think manual focus operation is not a firmware issue, but rather a hardware design/marketing issue. I doubt lens has encoding hardware compatible with usage similar to how an analog lens operates. After using a X100 for 4 1/2 months I believe the camera was designed from day one as an autofocus platform. Manual focus mode is just another way to use autofocus where you can a) check the AF focus point with a zoomed view b) make fine adjustments to the AF focus point, c) set a hyperfocal point or zone focus point and d) decouple AF from the shutter button.
Fuji really screwed up by not making this clear from day one.
Not A Firmware Issue
I think manual focus operation is not a firmware issue, but rather a hardware design/marketing issue. I doubt lens has encoding hardware compatible with usage similar to how an analog lens operates. After using a X100 for 4 1/2 months I believe the camera was designed from day one as an autofocus platform. Manual focus mode is just another way to use autofocus where you can a) check the AF focus point with a zoomed view b) make fine adjustments to the AF focus point, c) set a hyperfocal point or zone focus point and d) decouple AF from the shutter button.
Fuji really screwed up by not making this clear from day one.
irq506
just curious
"I want it to be the last one I'll need/want to buy"
oh come on.. how long has digital been around now? 15 years? time to get over the everything's changing so fast/I dont like the feel of the new stuff, rhetoric.. I remember very clearly before digital there was the same winging 'I want it to be the last one I'll need/want to buy' ..digital has nothing to do with it, its all down to you and your interest in the gear more then the pictures out of it.
See the cameras as for what they are not what you wanted them to have been..
oh come on.. how long has digital been around now? 15 years? time to get over the everything's changing so fast/I dont like the feel of the new stuff, rhetoric.. I remember very clearly before digital there was the same winging 'I want it to be the last one I'll need/want to buy' ..digital has nothing to do with it, its all down to you and your interest in the gear more then the pictures out of it.
See the cameras as for what they are not what you wanted them to have been..
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ZlatkoBatistich
Established
I agree. There is no perfect camera, so being just 'whelmed' is often good enough. The X100 is quite appealing. The designers seem to have had good intentions. I imagine that version 2 (whenever it comes) will really rock.
There was a comment above to try the Nikon D7000 instead. It has a lot to offer, but just isn't in the same size/type category. The D7000 has a quiet shutter, is lightweight and very responsive -- it is quite good overall. But as it relates to this discussion, it is not pocketable not matter which lens you put on it.
willie_901
Veteran
The binary or love phenomena is interesting and real.
I think the X100 underwhelms different groups of people such as those who never used a rangefinder, or previously used a P&S camera where DOF obscured AF performance, or previously used DSLRs with phase detection AF and relied on highly automated operation methods. People who hate or distrust AF would also be underwhelmed. People who really don't care about or need the performance gains from using an APS-C sensor compared to a smaller sensor are likely to be underwhelmed. People who refuse to read the manual or are not motivated to think and experiment about how to operate the camera will certainly be underwhelmed.
The favorably impressed are people who are comfortable with focus and recompose, and who understand when to use zone and hyperfocal methods. They are people who want to hold the camera up to their face. They prefer the convenience of using a small, light camera without sacrificing performance. They are willing to sacrifice flexibility in angle-of-view. They either set up the X100 to work one way that is is compatible with how they work, or they figure out how and when to use the different combinations of EVF/OVF and focus modes to do what they need to do. They invest this level of effort because they routinely get excellent RAW or jpeg files without carrying a large, heavy, noisy camera, or having to spend at least twice as much to get a similar results. They are motivated to get the results they need and their efforts are rewarded.
I think the X100 underwhelms different groups of people such as those who never used a rangefinder, or previously used a P&S camera where DOF obscured AF performance, or previously used DSLRs with phase detection AF and relied on highly automated operation methods. People who hate or distrust AF would also be underwhelmed. People who really don't care about or need the performance gains from using an APS-C sensor compared to a smaller sensor are likely to be underwhelmed. People who refuse to read the manual or are not motivated to think and experiment about how to operate the camera will certainly be underwhelmed.
The favorably impressed are people who are comfortable with focus and recompose, and who understand when to use zone and hyperfocal methods. They are people who want to hold the camera up to their face. They prefer the convenience of using a small, light camera without sacrificing performance. They are willing to sacrifice flexibility in angle-of-view. They either set up the X100 to work one way that is is compatible with how they work, or they figure out how and when to use the different combinations of EVF/OVF and focus modes to do what they need to do. They invest this level of effort because they routinely get excellent RAW or jpeg files without carrying a large, heavy, noisy camera, or having to spend at least twice as much to get a similar results. They are motivated to get the results they need and their efforts are rewarded.
skibeerr
Well-known
There are few members here who own a Hexar af (or Contax G1/2 )and dont like it.
When I read about the manual focussing issue on the x100 I would say try doing that with the Hexar/G1 or 2.
Same with the evf, stay on the ovf and do not look back.
So the automatic iso is buried in the menu, do you remember changing iso on your 35mm filmcamera? Wind back, try to leave the lip out, remember the framenumber you where on, load other iso film, take shot and repeat the above.
My only digital camera is the Panasonic G1, by now an obsolete camera, and it still works good enough for me.
The lifespan of any Digital camera is mainly in our heads, don't believe the marketing crap.
When I read about the manual focussing issue on the x100 I would say try doing that with the Hexar/G1 or 2
.Same with the evf, stay on the ovf and do not look back.
So the automatic iso is buried in the menu, do you remember changing iso on your 35mm filmcamera? Wind back, try to leave the lip out, remember the framenumber you where on, load other iso film, take shot and repeat the above.
My only digital camera is the Panasonic G1, by now an obsolete camera, and it still works good enough for me.
The lifespan of any Digital camera is mainly in our heads, don't believe the marketing crap.
reuno
Log out, go shoot.
Just like you i ran to the local shop in order to check this little gem, put an eye into it and... feel disapointed to. I'm not into digital and i was like "that's the camera i'm waiting for since so many years..." but i guess it tries too hard to be a Leica but it's far from it... so i passed my turn and i'm working hard for getting a M9