HCB booted from flickr

[Flyfisher Tom]

The 'sage' opinion of the talented masses on HCB ....

So now the 2004 election results are starting to make sense 😉

 

[Magnus]

If this image would be posted under the name of Fred G. Plumb or any other equivelant "no known" it would even be critisized here in the RF.

HCB has 2 assets, for one he has made some good shots, nut his name will allways be his main asset.

 

[Uncle Bill]

Interesting thread, goes to show there are a lot of people out there with cameras and perhaps the technical background who lack the visual vocabulary or the sense of history. I belong to a regional photoclub full of digital shooters who know photoshop as if its second nature, most of them have no clue who HCB is or have any exposure to his work. That is sad.

Bill

 

[dcsang]

I'm late to this but really.. this is probably one of the reasons why I don't "join" into that whole "Flickr" community crap.

I will continue to say that the advent of the digital camera is likely one of the greatest and one of the WORST things to ever happen to photography. EVERYONE seems to think that THEY are an "artist"/"artiste" merely because they can shoot a $300 digi.

It's sad...really really sad.

Dave

 

[ray_g]

Notice how few of the comments have to do with the artistic reasons why this may or may not be a good picture.

Exactly.

One problem is that self-proclaimed experts confuse the critique of photos (or art) with superficial comments on (usually basic) technique, most often because that is all they know.

Second, if everyone made a photo as suggested by these experts, then all we would have are cookie-cutter, "picture perfect" photos. How boring.

 

[dcsang]

Exactly.

One problem is that self-proclaimed experts confuse the critique of photos (or art) with superficial comments on (usually basic) technique, most often because that is all they know.

Second, if everyone made a photo as suggested by these experts, then all we would have are cookie-cutter, "picture perfect" photos. How boring.

BINGO.. good point Ray.

The BEST book I ever bought (next to the off-colour - literally of course 😀 - RFF book II) was "The Tao Of Photography" - and in there it is liberating to read that it's "ok" to "break the rules" (i.e. that so called rule of thirds and such).

It's a delight to read and the photos are quite decent too 🙂

Dave

 

[JoeFriday]

this is exactly the same thing that ruined the graphic design industry about 15 years ago.. not so coincidentally, it was the same time that Windows became popular, and font and clipart sets were sold to anyone with a PC.. suddenly everyone was a graphic designer, producing the most gawd-awful 'designs' you've ever seen.. wedding invitations utilizing 8 fonts and color combinations unseen since 1st grade

there is some amazing talent on flickr.. but you really have to sift through a lot of crap to find it

 

[telenous]

I'm late to this but really.. this is probably one of the reasons why I don't "join" into that whole "Flickr" community crap.

I will continue to say that the advent of the digital camera is likely one of the greatest and one of the WORST things to ever happen to photography. EVERYONE seems to think that THEY are an "artist"/"artiste" merely because they can shoot a $300 digi.

It's sad...really really sad.

Dave

Well, lets not throw out the baby with the bathwater. Flickr is a very wide community and hence you get all sorts of everything. Perhaps more importantly, there's great talent in display, some of which is nascent on flickr's shared photography premiss. It is not surprising that the direction of photography the average flickerati takes (digital, photoshoped, colour) is not to the taste of most RF users. But now there are also a couple of groups run by RFF members (there's the Rangefinder Forum group and the Leica Black and White), and that surely makes joining all the more palatable.

 

[Harry Lime]

I'd agree that except from an art-history point of view, it's not all that sizzling as an individual image. Of course, I'm one of the people who has said here before that I find much of HCB's signature work to be cold, manipulative, and depersonalizing of his subjects (just like that John Malcom Brinnan essay said) and I take a lot of flack for it, so I'm hoping all you HCB admirers will just write me off as incorrigible rather than trying to straighten me out again...

At least that is a perfecly legitimate line of thought for not liking HCB.

Much better than saying the shot is bad because it has veiling flare, is grainy, wasn't shot digital etc.
;-)

 

[boarini2003]

On the other hand, someone on the comments there quoted Cartier-Bresson saying "Sharpness is so bourgeois" surely it was a jest; I can't think of a more bourgeois family than "Cartier-Bresson" !

I have always thought the exact same thing! Sharpness is burgoise, and even more fun when you're shooting with a Leica!

The reaction to the HCB shot was very interesting, and not very surprising. Appreciation for art really depends on how immersed you are in the practice of it. Al Di Meola is an incredible guitar player, especially to those who play the guitar. To other people or "laymen" if you will, his music is not very interesting.

 

[boarini2003]

HCB has 2 assets, for one he has made some good shots, nut his name will allways be his main asset.

That is so very true. Just the same way people sometimes laugh at a comedian's joke, not because the joke was funny, but because that funny comedian said it. Had somebody else said it, it would have bombed.

 

[ray_g]

On the other hand, someone on the comments there quoted Cartier-Bresson saying "Sharpness is so bourgeois" surely it was a jest; I can't think of a more bourgeois family than "Cartier-Bresson" !

Yes, it was a joke, often quoted out of context.

From Newsweek, 5/25/2003:

It was Newsweek's radical idea to have Helmut Newton, known for his erotic and extremely composed photographs, shoot a portrait of Cartier-Bresson, master of the wholly natural Decisive Moment. Cartier-Bresson loathes having his picture taken, and when he must, he insists the photographer be a member of Magnum, the cooperative he cofounded half a century ago. Newton is not.

Yet they met up in Paris last week for the shoot. "He looked good, very good, says Newton, 83. ?He did everything I wanted, and was so sweet. I shot two rolls in color because he has very beautiful blue eyes, and four of black-and-white, because, being Cartier-Bresson, it has to be black-and-white. Though their approaches are so different, Newton has long admired Cartier-Bresson. His pictures are about truth, Newton says. Real people, like the picnic by the Marne. I like that one best. They first encountered each other 25 or 30 years ago, in a Paris cafe. I felt he turned his nose up at me, Newton recalls. A few years later Newton said in a television interview that, although he loved Cartier-Bresson's work, he believed the feelings were not mutual. Soon after, Newton received a postcard from Cartier-Bresson. It read: I like you very much.

Newton finally saw Cartier-Bresson again last year, when Vanity Fair asked Cartier-Bresson to shoot a portrait of Newton for a portfolio by photographers older than 80. Cartier-Bresson invited Newton and his wife, June (known by her nom de camera, Alice Springs), for lunch at his flat in the rue de Rivoli. Then they walked to a nearby park to take the picture. He had his little Leica, Newton remembers, and he simply would point and shoot. Since Cartier-Bresson's hand isn't as steady as it used to be, some of the pictures were a bit fuzzy. Sharpness is a bourgeois concept, he told Newton. Newton sits back and laughs: I thought that was just divine.

 

[boarini2003]

Very interesting story.

 

[Dfin]

I doubt I would have recognised it as aHCB photo. Even so it is a rather whimsical if not melancholy shot. The downward spiral stairs, the slightly curved road, the cobble stones. I would suggest that it would even work without the cyclist, the cyclist just adds that bit of intrigue, is he leaving his lover, escaping from pursuers or is he just on his way to work. So what if it is not Razor Sharp from 1m to Infinity, In this instant access digitized world anyone can take a photo very few of us can COMPOSE one(me included).It some how reminds me of Andre Kertez`s photo of Mondrian`s studio. The open door, the easel, the wilted flower, did the artist just return or has he left the room? LIke I said Intrigueing.

 

[ffttklackdedeng]

Yes, it was a joke, often quoted out of context.

...

He had his little Leica, Newton remembers, and he simply would point and shoot. Since Cartier-Bresson's hand isn't as steady as it used to be, some of the pictures were a bit fuzzy. Sharpness is a bourgeois concept, he told Newton. Newton sits back and laughs: I thought that was just divine.

Was that the real story? Puh, than it's really mean to make this statement kind of a 'HCB ideology description' (which is what I was thinking).

Thank you for clarifying!

Robert

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

Oh, yeah, that photo's been on the Deleteme Group for a long while. A long thread of comments, including mine (as a newbie), ranging from confusion, shock and some trying to put it all into perspective.

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

Yes, it was a joke, often quoted out of context.

Thank you, Ray.

 

[fitzihardwurshd]

Was that the real story? Puh, than it's really mean to make this statement kind of a 'HCB ideology description' (which is what I was thinking).

Thank you for clarifying!

Robert

This was the whole story indeed, but on the other hand this bonmot did not come out of nowhere.😉
Watching his oeuvre one can see that for him sharpness was at least not conditio sine qua non , a prerequisite for publishing a photo.

Fitzi

 

[ruben]

First, Atheism on one hand, or ignorance on the other, shouldn't be held as capital punnishable crimes. Let's not forget that we ourselves, RFF, are a minority protesting group in the mainstream of today's photography. Those ignoring HCB are only missing something to their own personal account.

But ridiculousity (is there such a word?) should be pointed to, and Ray did it with a masterful open mind & soft hand. Sincere cheers to you.

Second, it is not bad at all to question the basics. For me all the hulla bulla just brought this pic to my attention and I feel more than satisfied for that. Hard rocks are to stay, waves of the ocean only cleaning their surface time and again.

As for the pic, as I see it, I feel again the same HCB compositional touch. The pic could be good even without the cyclist, and with the cyclist even better. In the pic I see a symphony of lines and shapes, patterns and strenght, rythmic concentric forces and the humorous cyclist touch representing somehow HCB himself within the composition. Breaking the Law, if you want. Paradoxical, not ?

Cheers,
Ruben

 

[fgianni]

If this image would be posted under the name of Fred G. Plumb or any other equivelant "no known" it would even be critisized here in the RF.

I am not 100% sure about that, an image somehow similar actually won the Zeiis-Ikon price in the RFF competition.