Heading to thailand (& south east asia) - advice please!

[papasnap]

Hola all,

Am heading off on the 28th of april for a 4 month trip to south east asia - thailand mostly, but I also plan to do vietnam, cambodia and laos.

Would love to hear any advice you'd like to share about doing photography in this region - what to look out for, what to avoid, what equipment is a must have, good places to go, social & cultural protocol for photography, how to avoid theft, etc. Any input would be much appreciated!

A couple of specific quick questions:

- is is possible to get Provia 400X or 400F in thailand? How easy is it to get film in general?
- is camera equipment resonably cheap in Bangkok? Anywhere in particular good to go?
- any recommendations on a good waterproof bag for RF cameras? Hopefully, something I can shoot with while the camera is in the bag.

FYI, I was planning on mainly shooting my ZI + Nokton 35mm f1.2, but the ZI just got sent off today for warranty repairs. May need to buy an M6 to tide me over. Will also take a ricoh GRD II.

Finally, I'm interested in the idea of volunteer work while I'm there (I'm not sure if I'll be in a position to do any yet, but would like to know so I can plan for it). I'd especially like to do volunteer photography work, but am not sure how feasible it is - especially as my results are so variable! (sometimes I get the rolls back and I've got some great shots, other times I've mess every shot up!). I was very much interested to see RFFer simon larbalestier's terrific work on this at http://www.simon-larbalestier.co.uk/ - that was pretty inspiring.

cheers!
papasnap

 

[oscroft]

Hi papasnap,

I spend a lot of my time in Thailand (about half of each year), and I've been shooting over much of SE Asia - see the link to my web site in my post signature if you want to see some of my shots (they're nowhere near up to date and there are no recent RF shots and no B&W up there yet - I'm still scanning a big backlog of slides).

I'll offer a few thoughts on Thailand specifically, but I think most of it probably applies to most countries of SE Asia

Would love to hear any advice you'd like to share about doing photography in this region - what to look out for, what to avoid, what equipment is a must have, good places to go, social & cultural protocol for photography, how to avoid theft, etc. Any input would be much appreciated!

There isn't much that isn't worth photographing, I don't think. I've been back and forth to Thailand for more than 20 years, and I'm still happy photographing anything from bright temples in colour to the backstreets of Bangkok in B&W, from luscious tropical coastlines to the dusty interior during the dry season. As for equipment, I'd say ust take whatever you like, really - I've shot with various 35mm SLRs in the past, and MF gear, to RF gear on my last few trips. Last time I took an M6, an R4A, and CV 21, 28/3.5 and 50/2.5 lenses, with Sensia and Tri-X - this time I'll probably take M6, M2, with 28, 35, 50 and 75mm lenses, and Kodachrome and Tri-X (an M6 with the CV 28/3.5 is a great combination for walking around crowded cities like Bangkok).

Social protocol? People are generally pretty camera-friendly, but I always think it is best to get approval before taking photos of people - just a quizzical smile when pointing to your camera is usually enough to get a positive response (though if you're photographing children, expect them to immediately crowd round to see the digital result on the back of the camera - they're quite often disappointed by the blank backs of my cameras 🙂).

For general travel tips for safety etc, the best I can suggest is to get something like the Lonely Planet Thailand guide, and generally keep your common sense about you (It's amazing how many people go somewhere like the big city of Bangkok and suddenly turn into naive and trusting children who'll believe anyone who says nice things to them - they'd never behave like that back in London, or New York, or wherever).

Good places to go? Everywhere 😀 I've traveled around most of the country, and I don't think there's anywhere I wouldn't be happy to go back to. But it's all personal taste - and again, I think the LP guide is probably the best way to get a feel for what's there.

I don't really know much about film availability, because I always take my stock with me from the UK (I'm usually there for a couple of months at a time, and I can carry that much). Outside Bangkok it's mostly limited to standard tourist stuff - eg Kodacolor, but there are some specialist shops in Bangkok (my knowledge is out of date though, but there are other people who'll know where to suggest). Equipment prices always seem about the same as UK prices to me, which are higher than US prices. The only stuff we've bought there recently was a digital camera that my wife bought which cost pretty much the same as the UK price - and the same goes for a used Nikon F3HP I bought there about 15 years ago. The Mah Boon Krong shopping centre in Bangkok has a few reasonable-looking camera shops, and I believe there's a Voigtlander dealer in the Charn Isara tower. I've seen Leica signs around, but I can't remember specifically where.

FYI, I was planning on mainly shooting my ZI + Nokton 35mm f1.2

Is it possible you might find that lens a bit bulky? With the much smaller size, and with the stunning light in the region, I find the CV 35 Skopar very well suited to travel (but then, I rarely do any low light shooting anyway).

Anyway, that's just a few thoughts - if you happen to be in Bangkok any time from about the first week in May and fancy meeting up for a beer, drop me a PM (will you have online access while you're there?). I had a chat with Simon Larbalestier a little while ago, and I'm hoping to get in touch and say hello to him when I'm there too (if he's there at the time, of course).

 

[hans voralberg]

Here's my bit, I dont have much of a clue on Thailand outside of Bangkok and Pattaya, I practically live in Vietnam half a year so I know alot, and quite familiar with Singapore too

If you plan on visiting Vietnam, let me know, I can help with almost anything under the sun, quite possibly accommodation and may be transport. Regarding travel there are islands, coast, highlands, etc. I've been through the whole country so no problem guiding there. I recommend Sapa, and Hue, two cities you might find interesting.

People are not camera-shy, in fact I think they are camera-attracted. Except night clubs, you can shoot almost anywhere. Though the usual politeness apply, e.g rapid fire in a quite cafe/restaurant.

Film are not cheaper than Oz price I would imagine, Sensia is ~US$6/roll, same goes for Velvia 100. Tri-X and Tmax are around $4. Most film can be bought, you just have to know where.

Camera wise, not much cheaper than the UK, extremely limited in term of RF, SLRs are plenty. If I want to buy camera, Simlim square in Spore is the place, there are also 1 or 2 nice shops near Funan Mall. I think fellow member Justin Low can point out a few more

About volunteer work, I think Unicef Vietnam has tons of volunteer programes on all the time, if you happen to be here at all. They could give you some interesting opportunity because most are off the beaten track. Especially the conservatory stuff, lots of mosquitos though.

 

[papasnap]

hans & oscroft, thanks for all your thoughful advice - much appreciated!! will be in touch again once i'm there - I've got no idea on my specific movements yet, will start in bangkok and take it from there.

sounds like I should load up on Provia 400X while I'm in aus, and if I can pick it up for around $6 will probably wind up using sensia 400 a fair bit. Will see how it goes pushed a stop or two.

Oscroft, I think you're right about the big nokton - it's a wonderful lens, but I think I'll get a smaller 35mm to go with it, and/or likely the voigtlander 25mm f4 pancake.

 

[Austerby]

I spent 10 weeks in Thailand, Laos and Cambodia at the start of this year, using mostly a couple of M Leicas, plus 15mm, 25mm, 35mm, 50mm and 75mm lenses. I did use all the lenses at different times but mostly it was a nuisance to carry them all with me. The 15mm was great for getting shots of large buddhas in small and crowded temples and it is a fun lens to use. The 25mm got most use at Angkor and gave wonderful results. The 50mm was used least of all - not sure why but as it was the fastest lens with me (the Sonnar f1.5) it was used mostly for night shots. The 35mm was used most of the time, with the 75 always with me and used fairly often.

I brought my film with me but did occasionally go looking for local film and there really is very limited choice apart from plentiful basic Kodak and Fuj colour print film. There are good camera shops in Bangkok (a great place in the MBK centre) and Chiang Mai who do sell a wide range of film and photographic items, though prices were not particularly better than in the UK.

As for subject matter - well, where does one start. They're fascinating, wonderful countries with great, friendly people. Laos in particular is stunning - do talk to the monks and novices before taking their photos: many are fervently learning English and eager to practice and they'll happily let you photograph them in return for conversation (though it is not culturally appropriate for women to talk to them).

If you go to Angkor Wat (and you should) then do make sure you have plenty of film stock - you'll take a lot of photos there.

Have a wonderful time in these magnificent countries and share your photos on your return! Some of mine are here http://www.flickr.com/photos/vidwatts/ - look under the relevant grouping.

 

[Simon Larbalestier]

I live in BKK and based on my experience i would say on the whole used camera equipment costs more here, than in the UK, film is also quite expensive when compared to the cheap prices offered by 7-day shop. SD cards (especially 4-8GB) and external hard drives are also more expensive. So on my trips back to the UK i tend to stock up on film, SD cards and external hard drives.


Eddie Sui at Camera Collection is an invaluable source for equipment especially Leica and Nikon RF. Photo Hobby in the Silom Complex is good for film processing and for film purchase and it stocks most brands on a regular basis. The film processing can vary in its quality but in my experience is much more reliable than i-Qlab. Film processing and contacts is one thing BKK is very cheap for when compared to UK prices.

I'm not sure how well this would compare to Australia prices but my mate Andrew (Jaffa_77 i think?) and fellow RFF would be able to say for sure as we did a lot of processing at the same time.


You are probably aware that is it currently high season and prices in BKK are steep for hotels - these drop to less than 50% at the end of June when the low season kicks in.

As Oscroft says there is plenty to photograph in this region of the world. The only thing i would say is that there is a huge difference in contrast between the highlights and shadows especially in the temples and peoples houses so fast film or fast lenses are must ( for me anyway)

If you do get the chance to visit Angkor Wat its well worth the trip and its actually much cheaper to fly to Phnom Penh with Air Asia then catch the bus ( 6hrs) than fly direct to Siem Reap where you can only fly with BKK Airways at around 10-12,000 Baht. Taxi Drivers and Temple Guides are getting more expensive especially in the high season ($25 per day for a driver is not unreasonable now) I ran out of film on my last trip and purchased film from the children at the temples for around $4 ( cheaper than BKK prices!) and when all was processed it was actually this film which came out the cleanest and most consistently processed.

I'm in the UK at the moment and won't be back till 18th June otherwise i'd have suggested a meet for a beer. if you need more info you can email me on simonlarbalestier@mac.com

 

[oscroft]

The only thing i would say is that there is a huge difference in contrast between the highlights and shadows especially in the temples and peoples houses so fast film or fast lenses are must ( for me anyway)

That's a good point - I remember trying to use my CV 15mm lens with Fuji Velvia there once, and the huge range of contrast was mostly unavoidable with such a lens, so I ended up with a lot of pure white highlights and pure black shadows. For indoors I tend to mostly use Tri-X and generally get away with f/2.8-f/4 or thereabouts, or I'll shoot with the camera rested on a table etc (and I don't use anything as contrasty as Velvia there these days - Sensia suits the light better, I think). But if you were doing a lot of indoor shooting, I can appreciate a faster lens might be a good idea.

PS: In case I'm not checking this site and PMs, contact by email is probably better: oscroft[at]mac.com

Simon - I'll be there at least until the end of June, so I'll drop you a line after you get back and see if you fancy a beer.

 

[Sisyphus]

Papasnap,

I was in Thailand for one week. I spent four days in Koh Chang, and three days in Bangkok. I was travelling with my family and really needed to relax, however, this is difficult to do sometimes, especially with being in a new place.

In Koh Chang, which is the 2nd largest Island off the coast of Thailand, is quite an interesting place to photograph. I did not photograph as much as I wanted to, however, the local is quite fascinating, especially the people, who live in the huts off to the sides of the road. I managed to photograph a few families in their homes, but would need to go back and spend more time their to do more of a serious in depth project.

In Bangkok, I spent one day photographing, and made the most of it. I met someone who was willing to drive me anywhere I wanted to go for the day for a small fee. He was pretty good. He recomended a few places. the first place he took me were to the salt fields just outside of Bangkok. The people rent the land and harvest and refine the salt. The few farmers there were very gracious allowing me to photograph their salt fields them, and their families. Best time to photograph is early in the morning as the sun is rising.

The second place he took me was this farmers market, in the second province south of Bangkok, Maybe Simon knows what I am talking about? It is unlike any famres market I have ever seen, Part of it is situated on a train track. The train comes and go twice a day, when the train leaves, the people move the awnings and some of the items for sale and stand back. The train will also pass over a lot of the spices and other other items for sale. My guide was rushing me to leave the salt fields so we would make it in time for the train to pass through. I could have spent the whole day here photogrpahing, and the people were very nice and did not seemed bothered by the fact that I was photogrpahing them. There are also not too many tourists, I guess until now.

If anyone happens to be a film maker it this might an interesting little documentary to do--a lot of possibilitles, but again I had little time.

Third place he took me was the river market, he thought it might be interesting, but it wasn't so we left, and went to a few farms on the way back to Bangkok.

The rest of my time in Bangkok, was spent just seeing a few of the temples, and meandering around the streets.

Sorry I do not have any pics yet--still need to process the film.


Hope this gives you some ideas.

 

[oscroft]

In Bangkok, I spent one day photographing, and made the most of it. I met someone who was willing to drive me anywhere I wanted to go for the day for a small fee. He was pretty good. He recomended a few places. the first place he took me were to the salt fields just outside of Bangkok. The people rent the land and harvest and refine the salt. The few farmers there were very gracious allowing me to photograph their salt fields them, and their families. Best time to photograph is early in the morning as the sun is rising.

The second place he took me was this farmers market, in the second province south of Bangkok, Maybe Simon knows what I am talking about?

Samut Prakarn would be my guess from that description - the province immediately south of Bangkok on the East side of the Chao Phraya river.

 

[Simon Larbalestier]

@Alan cool i'll email you when i'm back and we can meet up and we can have some beer.
@Sisyphus no i don't know the market you've mentioned but it sounds well worth the visit.

 

[oscroft]

In Koh Chang, which is the 2nd largest Island off the coast of Thailand

Actually, I don't think that's true. Phuket is by far the largest Thai island, and I think Koh Samui is also larger than Koh Chang.

 

[Sisyphus]

Hey guys,

Alan, Yeah I think that is the province that you mentioned. I am not really sure which islands are larger, it is just something that a friend mentioned to me, and I took his word for it. The Island overall seems to be quite small though.

Simon, since you live there, it would be a place to visit and photograph. I am not sure how exciting it truly is, but that one I day I had a bit of freedom to photogrpah, so I am sure this went along with the experience. I do think it is worth going there. If I had more time, i would like to photogrpah the people at the market selling the stuff, and then photograph them in their homes, and the rest of their daily life.

So many possibilities.

 

[papasnap]

thanks again all for your info/advice! it's friday night now and I'm off on the monday, so not long now. I can already picture that first bloody mary I'll be having on the plane, right down to the nasty and easily spilled little plastic cup 🙂

Over the last few weeks I ordered a bunch of things to take with me - some of it arrived (inc 20 rolls of provia 400x and a new Zeiss Ikon to replace the one sent in for warranty - noriaki at matsuiyastore on ebay is a wonderful seller!) but couple of things including a sekonic L-358 light meter and .58x M6 TTL still haven't! I'll have to get them sent to me in thailand.

all the best!
tom

 

[hans voralberg]

Good luck on the trip mate, I'm still stuck dead in a mess of exams and work assigments coupled with the British weather bordering on madness. I'll join you next month

 

[Leica All Day]

Hello Tom, I lived in Vietnam for 7 months (HCMC) and I know the southern part of Vietnam pretty well.........I have been in this part of the world (SE ASIA) for the last year and a half and I am currently based in Bangkok.......I have some information that may be of use to you....I hooked up with Simon when I arrived here and he is a cool guy, looking forward to meeting back up with him when he gets back in town....Also Mitch Alland is another cool guy to hook up with if you are in this part of the world......I can meet up with you if you like and we can talk sh*t and drink a couple of beers if you want...just send me an email.....I shoot mostly B/W (tri-x or HP5) and you can buy that stuff in Bangkok for about 5-6 usd a roll, but I would suggest you buy your film in Australia.....As far as camera prices goes, things tend to be more expensive here than the states (sorry, but I have no idea what stuff costs in Australia).....anyways, feel free to email me if you want.......I have too much information to type it all out....cheers, Michael

 

[shimo-kitasnap]

Hello,
(Thai) "Sawasdee"
(Laotian) "Sabai-dee"
(Khmer) "Sook-sabai"
(Vietnamese) "Xin-chao"

Grammar is all the same, Thai, Lao, Khmer all have 5 tones, while Viet has 6.

very improtant, same in all the countries is "Bia" -beer. Don't forget.
"Coke" or "Coca-cola" or "cola" will get you a coke if you don't want a beer.

oh an also very important....."pheem" -film.

I'm Thai-American and have lived in south-east asia for 18 years. Some special places you might like to shoot in:

In Thailand:

A Floating Markets, just ask a tour guide or hotel front desk. If you've ever seen "Man with the Golden Gun" you'll understand . Make sure to use a wide lens.

Patpong, in downtown Bangkok, bars and girls, good for black and white, warning, not for the faint of heart.

Khao San Road, backpacker's district, very cheap rooms and very friendly place, next to Wat Bovornivet (a temple) where I ordained as a monk for 2 weeks, same temple the current king was ordained in in the 50s.

If you go there ask around for Pra Robert, he's an old British fellow who's been a monk for 10 years and he's great fun to sit and talk with, very wise, very funny.

Ayudiya, the old capital, lots of temples, great colors especially early morning or late in the day.

Chaing Mai, if you can get there, it's up north and is near the Burmese border

In Laos: Luang Prabang is a quiet temple town that is very nice.
Sam Nua, Pakse, and Vientiane.

In Cambodia: Siem Riep where Angkor Wat is. Tonle Sap, huge flood plain on the Mekong river, it's like a great lake. Phnom Penh, the capital has very interesting mix of people and cultures.

In Vietnam,

Trang Bang, a couple hours south of Saigon, same place where Nick Ut took the famous picture of "Napalm Girl," Cu-Chi, near Trang Bang, if you don't mind a bit of claustrophobia you could take a flash and a wide angle lens down into a Viet Cong Tunnel and get some spectacular shots, just watch out for scorpions (some places you'll be on hands and knees crawling and you won't even be able to sit up, just don't panic and follow your guide.)

Of course, Saigon is a must, NhaTrang and Da Nang are great for beaches, Hue, the old capital. Go up north to Hanoi, great night life and a bit different from Saigon, Sapa, old french Hill station with lots of hill tribes people who speak perfect english and love to get photographed.

As for waterproof bags, you won't need one get a F5XB, the M cameras are extremely durable I was out shooting in monsoon rains with no problems. Don't bother brining any film, it's cheaper to buy it there and you won't have to worry about old soviet x-ray machines that aren't film safe, and commie customs people don't particularly like hand inspections. I've found that film shops in Vietnam and Thailand are cheap and very professional, much better than anything in the west short of a pro lab. Forget about slides unless you shoot 400 and higher, I had a hard time shooting with 100 reala, the light is a bit different from the northern hemisphere. 400 superia and max are everywhere and the pro labs will stock faster films for night shooting.

If you must buy pro slide films, your best bet is at MBK department store in Bangkok at any of the photo shops, there's at least three. Don't expect to get any equipment for reasonable prices though especially leica, I saw a user condition M4 for almost $2000 USD and it's speeds didn't even work. Very few people in south east asian countries were able to afford leica back in the day and there are plenty of old rich men who will pay inflated prices for stuff like this just to wrap up and put in a safe, kinda like the japanese collectors.


As for safety and theft prevention, common sense is to always be paying attention. Most of the time you'll be fine, only rich old camera shop owners know what leicas are everyone else thinks they're just cheap point and shoots. Don't flaunt wealth, this is the worst thing you can do in this part of the world, be humble, be respectful, wear slacks and rubber flip-flops and cheap linen button shirts, you'll blend in better and you'll be comfortable in the heat. Try not to carry too much cash and don't carry it in your pockets, in questionable aread, I would put the wallet in the front of my undies, that way annyone reaching there you'll notice right away. Keep things you don't want to lose in the hotel safes like passports.

Wear sunscreen and insect repellent, forget about malaria pills, they do nothing against the strains in that part of the world and unless you're deep the remote jungle, you'll be fine. Malaria pills side effects are worse than the mosquito bites, you'll be tossing you cookies and just not feeling up to things.

gin tonics or just straight gin works too.

That's about it, have fun!

 

[oscroft]

Patpong, in downtown Bangkok, bars and girls, good for black and white, warning, not for the faint of heart.

Just don't try taking any photos inside the bars!

 

[Simon Larbalestier]

Patpong, in downtown Bangkok, bars and girls, good for black and white, warning, not for the faint of heart.

As for waterproof bags, you won't need one get a F5XB, the M cameras are extremely durable I was out shooting in monsoon rains with no problems.

If you must buy pro slide films, your best bet is at MBK department store in Bangkok at any of the photo shops, there's at least three.



As for safety and theft prevention, common sense is to always be paying attention. Most of the time you'll be fine, only rich old camera shop owners know what leicas are everyone else thinks they're just cheap point and shoots.

Have to say my experience of the above edited quote, is somewhat different......
as for shooting in the bars, this is definitely regarded as very uncool not to mention invasive.

 

[oscroft]

Forget about slides unless you shoot 400 and higher, I had a hard time shooting with 100 reala, the light is a bit different from the northern hemisphere

That sounds a bit strange to me too. For starters, it *is* the Northern Hemisphere, and Reala isn't a slide film. And I've been shooing in Thailand and around the region for more than 20 years using Kodachrome 64, Velvia 50, Sensia 100, etc, and I'd say the light is perfect for slow slide film.

 

[hans voralberg]

Velvia 50 is perfect for Vietnam =) and seriously you wish you had something slow with the amount of sun you gonna get