lubitel
Well-known
the last name (the first word) reads "Antipenko"
BrianT
Member
Whatever....is it rude.
?
?bananasplit
Established
Just asked a good Russian friend who gave me this :
Antipenko Ivan Vasilievich, Antipenko is the family name, Ivan the first name and Vasilievich the father name.
All the rest seems fine exept Administration and not Management (which looks same for me).
Nice collector intem.
Antipenko Ivan Vasilievich, Antipenko is the family name, Ivan the first name and Vasilievich the father name.
All the rest seems fine exept Administration and not Management (which looks same for me).
Nice collector intem.
BrianT
Member
Thank your Russian friend for me. Some people will never understand the thrill of collecting, but this sort of thing makes it worth while.
Brian.
Brian.
nzeeman
Well-known
BrianT said:
i didnt understood this last sentence - could you explain it a little.
btw i reeeeeally like ukrainian script on kiev.
EmilGil
Well-known
The "wrong way N" or "u" is the Cyrillic "i", nothing strange there.
I'm more interested to know why there are two dots over the e, "ë", which is a completely different letter in Cyrillic. In Russian it's pronounced like the "ya" in yacht, not "e". It's always stressed so the pronounciation should then be something like "ki-joff", not "kii-jef" (as in the name of the Ukrainian capital).
I'm more interested to know why there are two dots over the e, "ë", which is a completely different letter in Cyrillic. In Russian it's pronounced like the "ya" in yacht, not "e". It's always stressed so the pronounciation should then be something like "ki-joff", not "kii-jef" (as in the name of the Ukrainian capital).
BrianT
Member
Emilgil, you will note that the two dots are not above an 'e' but an 'i'. I have 5/6 of these cameras all are dated 1958. I have been told that the factory was having a fall out with the masters from the Kremlin and that Kei (two dots) vwas the Ukranian way of spelling the name of the city. Anyone out there know?
Brian.
Brian.
nzeeman
Well-known
EmilGil said:
russian "e" is pronounced ye
"ë" is yo
"ю" is yu
"я" is ya
BrianT
Member
Anyone reading this thread will start to think we are mad. But nzeman the dots are above an 'i' not an ''e'
nzeeman
Well-known
BrianT said:
oh yes - i wrote that to explain russian letters. i with dots is something ukrainian. i dont know their alphabet
but i read on net that i with dots is "yi" (or for english speaking people "yee")so they read it keeyeev
BrianT
Member
Well that seems straightforward.:bang:
Brian
Brian
KenD
Film Shooter
Mr_Flibble said:
Ukrainia/ The Ukraine used the Cyrillic alphabet long before the Soviet amalgamation!
KenD
BrianT
Member
So now wouldn't it be nice to find out why in 1958 Arsenal changed the script to Ukrainian Then in 1959 back to Russian.
Any ideas from the historians out there?
Brian.
Just looked at DVD's site. He has one for sale. he describes it as " Very rare Ukrainian Engraving" price $280 and it's very rough. I don't think they are all that rare I checked and I have 3, I did think without checking I had more but one does tend to lose track.
B
Any ideas from the historians out there?
Brian.
Just looked at DVD's site. He has one for sale. he describes it as " Very rare Ukrainian Engraving" price $280 and it's very rough. I don't think they are all that rare I checked and I have 3, I did think without checking I had more but one does tend to lose track.
B
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Jocko
Off With The Pixies
BrianT said:
It would certainly tie in with wider trends in the Ukraine at the time. Following the death of Stalin in 1953 the Soviet authorities, who were by no means popular in much of the Ukraine, adopted a policy of conciliation and decentralisation. There was a very significant move away from appointing Russian cadres and towards assigning leadership roles to native Ukrainians, most notably in the removal of Leonid Melnikov and his replacement by Oleksy Kyrychenko as General Secretary of the Ukrainian Communist Party.
Throughout the mid-50s there was a renewed emphasis on a distinct Ukrainian identity within the USSR, most obviously manifest in language, but also to some extent in economic terms. However, in the late 1950s, following the Hungarian uprising, such tendencies were denounced as "localism" and discouraged. In '58-'59 there was particularly notable - and legally codified - action against the use of Ukrainian in the economic and educational fields, which aimed to replace local "dialects" with the Russian "language" in order to assert the fusion of the previously separate parts of the USSR.
That doubtless unpopular reform would seem to coincide with these interesting Kievs
Cheers, Ian
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nzeeman
Well-known
maybe they didnt change logo - maybe they only made some quantity for ukrainian market...
Jocko
Off With The Pixies
nzeeman said:
But that's the point
From 1959 there was no Ukrainian market - only a Soviet, Russian speaking one If the Kiev medium Format fans are to be believed, this was not the only gesture of defiance in Arsenal's history - the Kaleinar lens, introduced in the late 70s is said to have been derisively named after a particularly unhelpful Moscow bureaucrat
Cheers, Ian
BrianT
Member
The story I was told is that a few, now by that I haven't any idea what a few means, but perhaps a few hundred, were unofficially produced as a protest against the Soviet. This would tie in with the unrest as reported by Ian.
"Yet, the 1958 school reform that allowed parents to choose the language of primary instruction for their children, unpopular among the circles of the national intelligentsia in parts of the USSR, meant that non-Russian languages would slowly give way to Russian in light of the pressures of survival and advancement."
Perhaps it's tied up with this. It would seem that after the death of Stalin 1953 (?) there was some liberisation which didn't go down to well with the workers . So perhaps as I mentioned earlier this protest was a two fingered salute. Also about this time there was a bit of an upheavel at Arsenal, several managers ended up being sent elsewhere, although I do think this had something to do with quotas not being met. Quality was also going down the pan, hence five years later the "No Name" ( Wikipedia)
It's a pity that Kiev history is so sketchy, mostly we have to rely on complete conjecture. I have just mentioned one, the No Name. Produced in 1963 to use up spare Zeiss 50mm lenses, hand built to provide quality, no name to fool people into thinking they were not those awful Russian things, fine. But most No Names turn up dated 1964 with Jupiter lenses because of a production over run. But I have to admit the quality is superb. Another story is that a guy in Sweden had "won" a load of Zeiss lenses and he persuaded Arsenal to make anonymous camera bodies . I don't know., but I prefer the last........maybe he paid for them with bags of stolen Reischbank gold that had been liberated by John Wayne....who knows?
Brian.
"Yet, the 1958 school reform that allowed parents to choose the language of primary instruction for their children, unpopular among the circles of the national intelligentsia in parts of the USSR, meant that non-Russian languages would slowly give way to Russian in light of the pressures of survival and advancement."
Perhaps it's tied up with this. It would seem that after the death of Stalin 1953 (?) there was some liberisation which didn't go down to well with the workers . So perhaps as I mentioned earlier this protest was a two fingered salute. Also about this time there was a bit of an upheavel at Arsenal, several managers ended up being sent elsewhere, although I do think this had something to do with quotas not being met. Quality was also going down the pan, hence five years later the "No Name" ( Wikipedia)
It's a pity that Kiev history is so sketchy, mostly we have to rely on complete conjecture. I have just mentioned one, the No Name. Produced in 1963 to use up spare Zeiss 50mm lenses, hand built to provide quality, no name to fool people into thinking they were not those awful Russian things, fine. But most No Names turn up dated 1964 with Jupiter lenses because of a production over run. But I have to admit the quality is superb. Another story is that a guy in Sweden had "won" a load of Zeiss lenses and he persuaded Arsenal to make anonymous camera bodies . I don't know., but I prefer the last........maybe he paid for them with bags of stolen Reischbank gold that had been liberated by John Wayne....who knows?
Brian.
BrianT
Member
Thought somebody would like this for the winter. Very professional looking modification for using gloves.....don't know about the infinity lock. Soft release? Tom Abrahammson eat your heart out, this is man size.
So what's this got to do with this thread? It's another Ukrainian Kiev from 1958.
Brian
So what's this got to do with this thread? It's another Ukrainian Kiev from 1958.
Brian
Attachments
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lubitel
Well-known
getting back to the ukrainian spelling with "i" and two dots. the ukrainians pronounce kiev a abit more like kee-ee-v. the russians: kee-yeah-v
zorroflores
Zorroflores
Just intrude to say that this is a very entertaining thread: a person´s story collectible, a bunch of history, a lesson on language usage across Europe and even some orthographic lessons, wow this is a great forum!