Help deciding which body to keep!

[gavinlg]

Wanted to chime in saying I'd keep the m4-p on the account of the black chrome and the rough'n tough internals, but I see you've already decided that!

I love my m4-2, it's a proper workhorse.

 

[presspass]

If you wear glasses, the 28 finder frame on a .72 Leica is very difficult to use. That said, you don't use a rangefinder camera for precise composition - that's what your Nikon F or F2 is for. I voted for the M4 rather than the newer body just because it has fewer frame lines and the finder is less congested. I've had, and sold, both M4-2 and M4-P cameras and kept the M4, but mostly I used newer cameras with built-in meters.

 

[Rob-F]

I'm

To me, the advantages of the M4-P are its black chrome finish (much, much nicer than the M4), the hot shoe, and 28mm frame lines (I shoot mainly 35mm, followed by 28mm). I'm aware that the M4 has a self-timer, but I honestly prefer no self-timer since it's easier to grip without one (and I practically never use it).

The only advantage of the M4 over the M4-P to me is the purported "classic Leica build quality". In fact, I reached out recently to legendary Youxin Ye, who told me that "it would be a pity to trade out an M4 for an M4-P, since it is one of the worst built".

I also asked YYe if I can install 28mm lines into an M4, but he said there is a shortage of MP frame line assembly parts from Leica USA at the moment.

What would you do?

It sounds like the M4-P scores more points for you. The M4 feels smoother to shoot with because it has brass gears in the advance mechanism, while the M4-P (P for professional) uses steel gears to make it strong enough for the motor drive. Outside of that, I don't think there is anything wrong with my M4P (which Youxin Ye recently serviced). In practical terms you need the M4-P for its 28mm frameline, since you won't be using an external finder.

 

[kshapero]

I've had all three M4 versions. I got sucked into the M-A orb. Sold all my film M's to afford the M-A. All good, now.

 

[Deleted member 65559]

Stvone, keep whichever you like. It doesn't matter that 73% would choose the M4. Be the rugged individual. I would have kept the M2....I like both the lack of framelines & external finders. All the Leicas are pro-level cameras that will serve you well. If they need service, get them repaired. Brilliant photos have been made with all those models....& in some worlds.....that's what it's all about.

 

[JeffS7444]

I think you already asked the right question of the right individual, one who is familiar with the insides of Leica cameras. As I understand it, the M4-2/M4-P weakness is a then-new integrated finder / hot shoe assembly made of a composite material (mineral-filled plastic) which tends to crack, so don't be too rough with that hot shoe.

 

[Steve Bellayr]

Or, put black and white film in one and color in the other and designate the cameras as such.

 

[Retro-Grouch]

I think, also, that thinning the herd may be questionable. I've been there, done that, and regretted it afterward. Good to have a second body in case one needs repair or (shudder!) gets destroyed/stolen/lost. None of these cameras are going down in price, and should you decide you want that second body in a couple of years, who knows what even a beater may cost! I thinned my herd to a M6 and M6 TTL .58, and they do everything I need. Even so, I get nervous about "just" having the two bodies. Of course, like many Leica owners, I am just the tiniest bit obsessive!

 

[styvone]

I think, also, that thinning the herd may be questionable. I've been there, done that, and regretted it afterward. Good to have a second body in case one needs repair or (shudder!) gets destroyed/stolen/lost. None of these cameras are going down in price, and should you decide you want that second body in a couple of years, who knows what even a beater may cost! I thinned my herd to a M6 and M6 TTL .58, and they do everything I need. Even so, I get nervous about "just" having the two bodies. Of course, like many Leica owners, I am just the tiniest bit obsessive!

I've thought of keeping them both. Though, the thing that hinders me is the thought that someone else could be getting good use out of the back up body. Not to mention, I have other cameras I intend on using alongside the main Leica shooter.

 

[styvone]

Stvone, keep whichever you like. It doesn't matter that 73% would choose the M4. Be the rugged individual. I would have kept the M2....I like like both the lack of framelines & external finders. All the Leicas are pro-level cameras that will serve you well. If they need service, get them repaired. Brilliant photos have been made with all those models....& in some worlds.....that's what it's all about.

I think I would've enjoyed the M2 more, if my copy actually had the original RF/VF in it. Sherry swapped it out for an M4-2 finder a while back, so it isn't the uncluttered 35/50/90 frameline combo.

 

[Evergreen States]

Maybe have the M4-P viewfinder transplanted into the M4, then have the M4 body painted black.

 

[hap]

I've had all three M4 versions. I got sucked into the M-A orb. Sold all my film M's to afford the M-A. All good, now.

sounds like a good deal, but I would probably keep my CLE and maybe (film) CL.

 

[Phil_F_NM]

I think I would've enjoyed the M2 more, if my copy actually had the original RF/VF in it. Sherry swapped it out for an M4-2 finder a while back, so it isn't the uncluttered 35/50/90 frameline combo.

She could have easily omitted selected framelines. Youxin did this for me on my old 70th Anniversary M4-P. I'm wondering the provenance of the M2 before you got it. It has the first three #s in the serial the same as my old M2 and similar top plate scratches. Always been a curiosity what happened to it after I sold it then it was dropped the next day, and the buyer had the audacity to ask for his money back.

Phil Forrest

 

[styvone]

She could have easily omitted selected framelines. Youxin did this for me on my old 70th Anniversary M4-P. I'm wondering the provenance of the M2 before you got it. It has the first three #s in the serial the same as my old M2 and similar top plate scratches. Always been a curiosity what happened to it after I sold it then it was dropped the next day, and the buyer had the audacity to ask for his money back.

Phil Forrest

Phil, the M2 was worked on before I owned it. I believe the previous owner had the work done.

 

[Phil_F_NM]

Phil, the M2 was worked on before I owned it. I believe the previous owner had the work done.

Yup, makes sense. I sold my M2 shortly after I returned from Iraq in 2005 and then a day or two later, the buyer wanted his money back after he had dropped it and the viewfinder blacked out. I recommended Sherry or DAG for that level of repair. I'm wondering how many owners it had between the buyer (named Josh) and yourself, if that is actually the M2 I'm speaking of. Just a curiosity about a relic from a past life.

Phil Forrest

 

[styvone]

Maybe have the M4-P viewfinder transplanted into the M4, then have the M4 body painted black.

Gah! I just might... I keep going back and forth.

 

[farlymac]

Gah! I just might... I keep going back and forth.

Now you know what it's really like to be a Leica owner. 😀


PF

 

[Bill Blackwell]

I'm trying to thin the herd of Leica's in my stable. I have a chrome M4 in beater condition, and an M4-P in roughly the same condition. ...

... the advantages of the M4-P are
- its black chrome finish (much, much nicer than the M4),
- the hot shoe, and 28mm frame lines ...
- I honestly prefer no self-timer since it's easier to grip without one (and I practically never use it). ...

I've also heard that 28mm lines in .72 finder is fiddly at best, but I still want them. ..

Sounds like if I were you, I'd keep the M4-P 🙄

...
The only advantage of the M4 over the M4-P to me is the purported "classic Leica build quality". ...
Also, an advantage of the M4 is the flare-free finder.

The M4-P finder can be upgraded with the flair resistant condenser for about $200.

Plus, while I would agree the M4 is better built compared to your M4-P, either would outlast your great grandchildren as long as there is a technician around to service it.

 

[Bill Blackwell]

The only difference between an M4-2 and an M4-P is the 28mm finder in the P that is it ..same camera. ...

The M4-P also has 75mm framelines. The M6 is essentially an M4-P with a meter.

And BTW, the M4-2 and M4-P were NOT produced at the same time. The M4-P was produced after the M4-2.

 

[jsrockit]

You cannot go wrong here... keep the one you enjoy more. Why stress? They are so similar unless you believe the M4 is better made.