Horizont KMZ (and some basic existential questions about the camera)

[Gregoris]

Just bought a Horizont (1970 model) from an Austrian Leica dealer who seemed reliable and offered returns as an option. Of course it costed more than others, but I thought it's saner to buy from a dealer than an individual. I asked him and he said it is in "perfect working condition".
So, the camera arrives and it has problems. Light leaks and overexposure due to a slow(er) turret. Also a dirty lens.

My basic existential questions about Horizont cameras are:

1. Are these problems to be expected? Should I return the camera while I still can?
2. Are they worth repairing? By that I mean professionally. Is it worth paying more money for a CLA and light seal replacement?
3. Do you ever solve the light seal problems? I saw others' who didn't really suffer as much as mine.
4. Is the lens better/worse/the same with later, more recent, plastic models?
5. How much would you pay for them?

Here's an example of the first test roll in an overcast day


Here's one after I stuck some electrical insulation black tape on the turret to stop the reflection. Still pretty bad...


Hope to get to hear some opinions based on other people's experiences.

Thanks

 

[B-9]

If you paid a premium, send it back.

Plenty of these fish in the sea... so to say.

 

[Gregoris]

Thanks for the reply. But I would like to know if by sending it back and getting another one, I would still have to face the same issues. I know they're not the most reliable, but are they all supposed to be freaky like that?

 

[sevo]

The turret seems to be in a good shape - there is no significant striping from that. The lens does not appear to be bad either - it seems to outperform the chosen film. So the only real issue seem to be the seals. Which have to be re-done once in a while.

 

[Gregoris]

Thanks sevo,
So do you think that paying a professional for a CLA and some foam replacement, is not wasted money?

 

[sevo]

Thanks sevo,
So do you think that paying a professional for a CLA and some foam replacement, is not wasted money?

It really depends on how much you already spent on it. If the camera is supposed to be functional and was priced accordingly, I'd consider the dealer responsible for having the light leaks repaired...

 

[Reclaimer]

There is a fellow in Canada that does a CLA on these cameras. He did a Horizont for me a few years ago and did a grat job. Almost any camera you buy, that has now been serviced with have the same light leak problems, the seals are just to old.


Brian Martin
5124 - 209A Street,
Langley, BC, Canada
V3A 7K8

Phone 604.532.1166

 

[Gregoris]

Yes, I know the guy. I have seen his ebay page. Or maybe there are more than one? It's just that Canada is a little far from me (France). But it's still good to know that someone is still repairing them. Otherwise, it can be a tricky DIY situation.

 

[Gregoris]

Well, the camera was sent back to Austria, and the seller offered a full refund.

After a couple of days I decided to buy one from moscowphoto, who described it as "recently serviced, fully working, tested with film by one of our technicians". No lightleaks this time, but it's clear that the camera has not been serviced, it chewed the film while rewinding it, tore it in two and had an erratic turret movement, sometimes stopping in the middle of the shot, lens wide open!

I am now considering sending this to Canada for a full repair. I wonder if anyone else thinks it is worth it, or send it back for another refund (my shipping costs) and then take my chances with another one after that? Does that sound logic?

 

[Roger Hicks]

A friend of mine (Mike) was official photographer to the Supreme Soviet in the 1980s, and he wanted one. So he ordered a case of them -- I forget now whether it was half a dozen or a dozen -- and kept the one that worked best.

When I borrowed it in Moscow in about 1990 he advised me to shoot several exposure of each shot, as some might still be afflicted with uneven exposure because of jerky rotation. Even the Supreme Soviet couldn't reliably get a good one, even new.

They were always hopelessly unreliable cameras, and whether they worked or not was a matter of luck. When they did, the pictures were great. I still have a couple of pics of St. Petersburg (they'd stopped calling it Leningrad even then) that I like.

Cheers,

R.

 

[jbielikowski]

Why Horizont not Horizon 202? It's a much improved design.

 

[julio1fer]

I use regularly a 1970 or so Horizont model. It works well enough for me.

When I bought it (it came from Russia) the pictures showed those very same banded leaks. They came from light leaks in the seal around the turret. It seems that the material does not keep well.

The camera went back and forth to my technician at least 4 times until he found an adequate seal material for replacement. He said it was a bit tricky.

A sample picture:

 

[Gregoris]

Is Horizon 202 a lot more reliable than the old Horizont? I thought that having only one speed for the turret and a simpler design with no fancy parts and also built like a WWII tank, would pose less problems and it would be easier to fix.

The camera has killed me another film (2 out 2! 100% fail rate) since this morning, when I loaded a roll in, only to take a couple of shots and then get blocked. It got so badly jammed inside, that it moves neither forwards or backwards towards the rewind spool. I tried unblocking it in the darkroom but nothing moves in either direction!

 

[Gregoris]

By the way, regarding Mika from moscowphoto. Any (positive) personal experiences?

 

[x-ray]

I had one for years and it was much more reliable and just as sharp as my Widelux 7. I sold the Widelux and kept the Horizont. I since have sold the Horizont and purchased a new model. I think the one I have now is the Perfection, a later version of the 202 with more shutter speeds. These are fantastic cameras and generally reliable. The newer ones are much smoother and refined vs the Horizont.

 

[Gregoris]

I found the problem with this particular camera. The take-up spool is not rotating evenly, has a slipping grip and therefore the film gets loosened inside the chamber and gets trapped by the sprocket teeth, resulting to film being jammed inside.

Is there a way to DIY this, tighten the grip of the take up spool, or do I have to send it for a full service to Canada?

Thanks, everyone.

 

[valdas]

Just go for the Widelux...

 

[Gregoris]

That'd be a good idea, if I were a busy dentist. 😀

 

[sevo]

Just go for the Widelux...

The Widelux has quite a similar reputation as the Horizon. If you want it reliable without banding in a swing lens panoramic, go for one of the more recent electric motor driven professional cameras, recently factory serviced.

 

[x-ray]

Even after sending my Widelux f7 in for repairs several times it still would band. My Horizont never banded and my Perfection has never banded. Widelux are problematic.