Or should I say, how good of a tool will the M8 be? I hope that when Leica releases the M8 all other makers will envy the Holy Grail of cameras. I hope to see a sensor that will yield spectacular DR and little noise. I really don't care much for all the gimicks of other digital cameras such as GPS, Wireless etc ... I want a camera that will be as close to an MP as possible with the exception of the digital capture. Give me basic metering, a timer and raw files. Let me do all the other work on the PC. I especially want a digital camera that will not be outdated in 6 month to a year. I hope they dont produce an M9 for 5 years. Maybe even send in your M8 for a sensor upgrade.
All this wishing is useless since the camera is alreadyin production. But I do hope we get a heck of a surprise next month. I want to see all those DSLR users (Non sport photographers) say, I wish my camera was that simple and yielded such good images.
All this wishing is useless since the camera is alreadyin production. But I do hope we get a heck of a surprise next month. I want to see all those DSLR users (Non sport photographers) say, I wish my camera was that simple and yielded such good images.
back alley
IMAGES
i just wish it was something i could afford.
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
That is exactly what I'm hoping for, Jorge. Other than the price ( :
: ), as long as it delivers at the very least the results you get with the DMR, and there is no noise reduction algorithm that gets in the way of my picture capture (or if there is, that there's an option to turn it off) and that high ISO is as clean as at least my Canon 20D is. *Then* I'd be happy.
The viewfinder will be a great deal too; if it's sealed and has the anti-glare optics...then the money would be at least half justified. The other half... that would just be between me and my wallet.
: ), as long as it delivers at the very least the results you get with the DMR, and there is no noise reduction algorithm that gets in the way of my picture capture (or if there is, that there's an option to turn it off) and that high ISO is as clean as at least my Canon 20D is. *Then* I'd be happy.The viewfinder will be a great deal too; if it's sealed and has the anti-glare optics...then the money would be at least half justified. The other half... that would just be between me and my wallet.
SolaresLarrave
My M5s need red dots!
Is it coming out next month?
Wow... time flies. But then, like Joe, I shall worry about its looks because that's as far as I can go about it.
Does the Epson rangefinder need coding on the lenses? Can it be used with regular screwmount glass? Just wondering...
Wow... time flies. But then, like Joe, I shall worry about its looks because that's as far as I can go about it.
Does the Epson rangefinder need coding on the lenses? Can it be used with regular screwmount glass? Just wondering...
R
Rich Silfver
Guest
Jorge Torralba said:
You should post that on your dSLR exchange forum and see the responses you get
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
In which noise is the least of the issues imho, if it takes a thick layer of matte glass and in-camera noise surpression to get it noiseless, like Canon I am glad that Leica did not choose that route.. I'll be happy to put up with more noise than my Canon 10D as CCD sensors tend to be, if it is grain-like noise. And not too much of course.
Mark Norton
Well-known
I am expecting the M8 to be a truly stand-out camera. It will not be a hair-shirt back-to-basics camera because it has to produce excellent images without relying on post-processing. Not everyone wants to be a photoshop or equivalent slave.
The occasional feedback from people who have seen the camera is extremely positive, so I am banking on there being something which really sets this camera apart from the competition and our expectations. I have a particular interest in how the viewfinder will be but maybe there is something else which none of us have thought of.
Can't wait to find out!
The occasional feedback from people who have seen the camera is extremely positive, so I am banking on there being something which really sets this camera apart from the competition and our expectations. I have a particular interest in how the viewfinder will be but maybe there is something else which none of us have thought of.
Can't wait to find out!
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
No, it doesn't need coding on the lenses, and yes you can use regular LTM lenses just like you can on an M body (with an adapter).SolaresLarrave said:
Also, afaik, the M8 doesn't "need" the coding; it's just something that the camera reads so it can do some settings automatically. Unless I read the reports incorrectly...
Nachkebia
Well-known
1 - Has to have great iso handling (iso 800 has to be cristal clear)
2 - Has to have tonality control (custom curve)
3 - Has to have dedicated BW mode (tonality control, curve, color and so on)
4 - Has to have great DR
5 - Has to shoot at least 500 raw files with one battery charge
6 - Has to power saving mode, when you have minimum control of anything but exposition (raw format)
7 - Has to have native RAW editing application (good one like nikon has)
8 - Has to have simple manu with less settings!! and les buttons!!!
9 - Has to be under $1000 (joke)
2 - Has to have tonality control (custom curve)
3 - Has to have dedicated BW mode (tonality control, curve, color and so on)
4 - Has to have great DR
5 - Has to shoot at least 500 raw files with one battery charge
6 - Has to power saving mode, when you have minimum control of anything but exposition (raw format)
7 - Has to have native RAW editing application (good one like nikon has)
8 - Has to have simple manu with less settings!! and les buttons!!!
9 - Has to be under $1000 (joke)
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
Les buttons sont tres cute!Nachkebia said:
I laughed (really).Nachkebia said:
I wish I hadn't.rvaubel
Well-known
Nachkebia said:
Nachkebia
Too many modes! With good, native raw files, the editing application can handle all the modes you want, Plus noise reduction, custom curves and any other thing you want. I just want the camera to give me the files as RAW as possible and let me handle vignetting, noise, etc in post processing.
Rex
taffer
void
Where I think Leica could come up with something radically different from all the others ?
Easy, providing a real solution to the obsolescence taking place on the digital world.
That is, a camera shell whose digital innards can be adapted and upgraded according to the technological developments taking place.
And at the same time, having a supply of every spare part needed, may it be electronic or mechanical. The first, I'm not sure if they could without owning the ability to manufacture the electronics as well, the second, I think they are well known for (if I'm not wrong, as for today you can still order parts for the M2 and M3).
That would become a world of a difference, but most likely, its cost wouldn't make it worthwile.
Oscar
Easy, providing a real solution to the obsolescence taking place on the digital world.
That is, a camera shell whose digital innards can be adapted and upgraded according to the technological developments taking place.
And at the same time, having a supply of every spare part needed, may it be electronic or mechanical. The first, I'm not sure if they could without owning the ability to manufacture the electronics as well, the second, I think they are well known for (if I'm not wrong, as for today you can still order parts for the M2 and M3).
That would become a world of a difference, but most likely, its cost wouldn't make it worthwile.
Oscar
Nachkebia
Well-known
rvaubel : what kind of magic you can do later with raw file we all know, but what you will see on location is different story, I want to see BW on the monitor with custom contrast and color settings, because if you see by mistake a flat digital grey bw image you will loose your inspiration
AH!
forgot one thing!
10 - Has to have some kind of film grain simulation (controlable in post too)
gabrielma : pardon?
AH!
forgot one thing!
10 - Has to have some kind of film grain simulation (controlable in post too)
gabrielma : pardon?
rvaubel
Well-known
I'll have that RAW file rare, please
I'll have that RAW file rare, please
Nachkebia
What am suggesting is your best resource for the best image is the unadultareted RAW file. I too will set the settings for display only (on the camera LCD) at a much higher contrast, saturation and brightness values than I actually be processing the RAW files to. The reason is not so much for inspiration as it is so I can see the darn thing. After all, the dislay on the LCD is JPEG whether or not you are shooting in RAW. It doesnt do any harm to jack up the contrast, etc to make the image more legible. Likewise, when shooting in B&W the image recorded in RAW has all the color values, notwithstanding the image present on the LCD screen.
In a nutshell, I hope Leica makes the rawest of the RAW files availiable to the photographer, without any sharpening, noise reduction, etc, at all. I realize that the RAW linear files have to be converted to a gamma scale at some point, preferrable in the camera. Even that conversion has a cetain amount subjectivity that I know is inevitable. But let's keep it to a minumum for those that like their RAW files rare!
Carnivoreously Yours,
Rex
I'll have that RAW file rare, please
Nachkebia
What am suggesting is your best resource for the best image is the unadultareted RAW file. I too will set the settings for display only (on the camera LCD) at a much higher contrast, saturation and brightness values than I actually be processing the RAW files to. The reason is not so much for inspiration as it is so I can see the darn thing. After all, the dislay on the LCD is JPEG whether or not you are shooting in RAW. It doesnt do any harm to jack up the contrast, etc to make the image more legible. Likewise, when shooting in B&W the image recorded in RAW has all the color values, notwithstanding the image present on the LCD screen.
In a nutshell, I hope Leica makes the rawest of the RAW files availiable to the photographer, without any sharpening, noise reduction, etc, at all. I realize that the RAW linear files have to be converted to a gamma scale at some point, preferrable in the camera. Even that conversion has a cetain amount subjectivity that I know is inevitable. But let's keep it to a minumum for those that like their RAW files rare!
Carnivoreously Yours,
Rex
Bob Ross
Well-known
Jorge, I think you hit all the bases on what I am hoping for with the M8. If we do get a "heck of a surprise", it most likely will be in generative changes (making a good thing even better) to the basic elements of the M class Leica, the viewfinder, metering system and ergonomic tweaks to accomodate digital capture. I think the digital side has all the potential, in todays technology, to carry the camera to the next major digital capture break through, if one even happens sometime in the coming decade.Jorge Torralba said:
Bob
ghost
Well-known
the camera's main attraction will be its ability to take m-mount lenses. the camera will almost certainly not be a technological wonder. that would be a miracle.
John Camp
Well-known
Nachkebia said:
I don't think there's any LCD that can provide this. If people complain about the low resolution of a computer monitor, what can you expect from a camera back LCD? One well known photographer recently complained on one site or another that he'd only found one camera on which the LCD was even really visible in bright sun. I think the Leica, like most modern cameras, will show you an exposure histogram that lets you get an idea of whether you hit the exposure, but that's about it.
I think Epson came pretty close to the ideal with the RD-1. A few analog controls on top, a few menu items, and after that, it's up to post-processing. You can get really good photos right out of the camera; for your art show, you might want to do some tuning up in Lightroom or Photoshop.
JC
ampguy
Veteran
pentax has realized this
pentax has realized this
you can turn on brightness/sharpness and noise reduction for the best JPEGs possible, or if you are a digital tweaker, you can turn off brightness/sharpness and noise reduction, get lower quality JPEGs, but more tweakable raw files.
Hopefully the M8 will offer this flexibility.
However, it is unreasonable to expect the M8 to have a product lifetime of more than 1 year based on the technologies it is utilizing. Look at Nikon's first DSLR (modular), it's now $400 for collectors and was originally $20K.
pentax has realized this
you can turn on brightness/sharpness and noise reduction for the best JPEGs possible, or if you are a digital tweaker, you can turn off brightness/sharpness and noise reduction, get lower quality JPEGs, but more tweakable raw files.
Hopefully the M8 will offer this flexibility.
However, it is unreasonable to expect the M8 to have a product lifetime of more than 1 year based on the technologies it is utilizing. Look at Nikon's first DSLR (modular), it's now $400 for collectors and was originally $20K.
Mark Norton said:
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
That's precisely what scares me.ampguy said:
What would be a home-run (not *the* home-run, but a major one, nonetheless), undoubtedly, would be the commitment by Leica to upgrade the sensor for a "nominal" fee, when a new, improved sensor is developed. That way the M8 would not become obsolete, and on a completely new ballgame than any other digital camera out there.
rvaubel
Well-known
Obsolete in a year? Why?
Obsolete in a year? Why?
Some members of this forum seem to assume, as a given, that the technology of the M8 will be outmoded in a year, making the camera vertually worthless and useless. While there might have been some merit to this "shelf life of less than a yewr" argument back in the early days of sensor development, such is not the case now. The Megapixel War has thankfully been drawing to a close for the last couple of years within the ranks of the consumer DSLR's
Witness the introduction of the 30D. What was widely expected to be a 10Meg version of the 20D's 8Meg, turned out to be a minor treaking of the existing features, not a sensor upgrade. The "obsoletist" complained bitterly that the 20D wasn't rendered passe' as there was really no reason to sell thier old body to get a new one. I,ve had my 20D for some time now, and the technology is over two years old and shows no sign of becoming "obsolete".
In an example of technology going backwards, the Nikon D80 @ 10Meg may produce an inferior file in some ways, to the camera it replaced, the D70. If noise levels, Low light performance, clean high dynamic range files are important to you, the argument can be made that the D70 is a better camera. The jury is out on this one but we shall see.
I believe digital cameras are emerging as a mature technology. Unlike computers there is a limit to how many pixels you want ti cram on a given sensor's real estate. I believe this number has been reached for the most part, and exceeded in the case of pointn'shoots.
10 Megapixels on the M8 seems like the sweet spot on a 1.3 X sensor. In any case it will produce quality pictures for years to come. For that matter my RD1 @ 6 Megs, will do the same. I expect the M8 to keep providing quality pictures for the life of the camera.
Rex
Obsolete in a year? Why?
Some members of this forum seem to assume, as a given, that the technology of the M8 will be outmoded in a year, making the camera vertually worthless and useless. While there might have been some merit to this "shelf life of less than a yewr" argument back in the early days of sensor development, such is not the case now. The Megapixel War has thankfully been drawing to a close for the last couple of years within the ranks of the consumer DSLR's
Witness the introduction of the 30D. What was widely expected to be a 10Meg version of the 20D's 8Meg, turned out to be a minor treaking of the existing features, not a sensor upgrade. The "obsoletist" complained bitterly that the 20D wasn't rendered passe' as there was really no reason to sell thier old body to get a new one. I,ve had my 20D for some time now, and the technology is over two years old and shows no sign of becoming "obsolete".
In an example of technology going backwards, the Nikon D80 @ 10Meg may produce an inferior file in some ways, to the camera it replaced, the D70. If noise levels, Low light performance, clean high dynamic range files are important to you, the argument can be made that the D70 is a better camera. The jury is out on this one but we shall see.
I believe digital cameras are emerging as a mature technology. Unlike computers there is a limit to how many pixels you want ti cram on a given sensor's real estate. I believe this number has been reached for the most part, and exceeded in the case of pointn'shoots.
10 Megapixels on the M8 seems like the sweet spot on a 1.3 X sensor. In any case it will produce quality pictures for years to come. For that matter my RD1 @ 6 Megs, will do the same. I expect the M8 to keep providing quality pictures for the life of the camera.
Rex