How am I scratching my negatives?

L

LocoDuck

Wind, Click, Capture
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Aug 10, 2007
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After developing two roles of Tmax the other night, I was careful to not touch them after pulling them out of their final rinse. No squeege used, no running of fingers down the film strip, I simply hung them up over night, and waited patiently until morning, when I felt like it was safe to cut and store them.

Of course, now I have nice scratches on almost all my frames. Some of them are in-line with the edge of the film, some start up in the middle of a frame... Are my Archival Elite #12E sleeves damaging my film? Is there something else that could be doing it.

It does seem as though the problem is worse on my 2nd role than the first... could it have been in my M2?

Here are two examples. (If you have any other suggestions, through them at me)

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Thanks ahead of time.
 
some questions.

How are you processing?

Are you using pre-rolled film or rolling your own from bulk?

I would check inside the m2 along the film path, and across the pressure plate - maybe it's intermittent because it only happens when you squeeze the back of the camera when winding, etc...

I would check and see on the next couple of rolls, if you can inspect them before sleeving to see if you have scratches. But I don't think it's that.
 
It's not likely to be your M2, since in-camera scratches are, as a rule, perfectly straight.

I've had scratches from a particular type of sleeves, that had a very tight fit to insert film. Had to throw out all 100 of them.

(Wild guessing: if your scans are from wet prints, they could very well be from pulling the film throught the negative holder in an enlarger. That looks pretty much like what you have. If they're film scans, maybe someone else, more knowledgable on scanners has a suggestion.
More wild guessing: if you happen to use reloadable cassettes you have to take care not to get dust and grit in the felt gate (even if you're not, don't put a cassette in your pocket after you finished it, dust in the felt can still cause scratches when you load your reels (also avoidable by opening the cassette in the dark).)
 
Are you opening the cans and taking the whole roll out of the can before spooling it? That's how I got rid of the slight scratches I always had with my slides (I do my own E6 processing). No problem whatsoever with b&w, though.

Stefan
 
Limpovitj said:
It's not likely to be your M2, since in-camera scratches are, as a rule, perfectly straight.

I've had scratches from a particular type of sleeves, that had a very tight fit to insert film. Had to throw out all 100 of them.

(Wild guessing: if your scans are from wet prints, they could very well be from pulling the film throught the negative holder in an enlarger. That looks pretty much like what you have. If they're film scans, maybe someone else, more knowledgable on scanners has a suggestion.
More wild guessing: if you happen to use reloadable cassettes you have to take care not to get dust and grit in the felt gate (even if you're not, don't put a cassette in your pocket after you finished it, dust in the felt can still cause scratches when you load your reels (also avoidable by opening the cassette in the dark).)
Click to expand...
Agree! Scratches in camera are straight, yours are not. I would guess the sleeves, although the cassette idea is valid. As also mentioned, it could be handling in either the enlarger or scanner. Carefully check each step from loading to finish.
 
I would guess the sleeves, too. Best way is to use glassine envelopes, but they don't lend themselves to storage very well. I scan at max dpi and archive a raw file too so it's a onetime out of the sleeve thing, but sometimes I still get scratches. It's quite frustrating.

I have noticed that the print files 35mm sleeves have gotten a bit tighter in the last few batches.

Of course, I haven't developed film in a long enough time that my "last few batches" are like a year old nw.

allan
 
Oh wait - you didn't confirm if you were rolling your own. Another likely culprit. I did that with 4 rolls of efke 25 that I was trying and had to toss all 4. I was more careful the next time to line up the film on the wheeles really carefully and things were better.

Sorry for all my typos this morning. I did not sleep well.

allan
 
Thank you all for your thoughts. I am using a changing bag, and I was under the impression that spooling straight from the canister would be safest, I haven't tried opening a role in the bag, any tips?

I sure hope it is not the sleeves, I bought 100 of em for economy, and they feel so nice when compaired to my old PrintFiles.

I will keep trying (with less important pictures!) and if I find a solution, will post for others with the same problem.

Edit: Not bulk rolling yet. So thankfully that one is not in the equasion. Also I am just scanning them, no room for "real" printing yet.
 
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LocoDuck said:
Thank you all for your thoughts. I am using a changing bag, and I was under the impression that spooling straight from the canister would be safest, I haven't tried opening a role in the bag, any tips?
Click to expand...

old fashioned bottle opener, or I suppose a film cannister opener made for that purpose. Open the end where the spool is recessed and slide the spool out, cut the end off and away you go.
 
I would guess from your last post that the culprit is the cannister. I was having a similar problem, until I began routinely removing the cannisters in the changing bag prior to spooling onto the developing reel. Just be careful about handling the film only by the edges. I do not use cannisters more than five times and use masking tape to clean the felt each time prior to use. I also use Hewes reels which force you to work only with the edges. Good luck!
 
Definitely take the film out of the canister, IMO. Just rip that whole top off, and pull the whole spool out.

allan
 
I used to get scratches like this until I changed a few things. I used to use my fingers to squegee the wet film, when I first hung it to dry. This is not necessary. I also used to cut all the film, put it into PrintFile sleeves, set books on them to flatten them, and then scan the next day. Now, I take the dry film and roll it backwards onto a reel to flatten them. Then I scan before they ever go into the sleeves, and I never have scratches anymore. I'm not sure which change made the difference, but I suspect it was the sleeves.

Paul
 
So with this /\ in mind, is there a better way than sleeves? I almost see no point in storing my negatives after an initial scan if i'm just going to scratch them with my sleeves... Ideas?

Again, thank you all, I'm very much looking forward to scratch-free negatives
 
I've scratched more than a couple negatives from the sleeves. I haven't really found a cost-effective sleeve solution. The "best" sleeves I've found come in a roll or cut strips, but they are not clear so finding a particular frame later requires too much handling for my taste. I don't think there is a real solution, other than to be absolutely fanatical about dust control.

I dry my film by hanging from my shower rod with a film clip on the top and bottom. I scan before putting in sleeves. I use distilled water for the final rinse, and really have little issue with dust at this point. I am now very careful, however, to ensure the entire negative strip is clean and dust free before returning it to the sleeve after printing. I used to be cavalier about discard frames on a strip that has a good frame - no more.

I really wish someone would produce a clear plastic archival sleeve page that is hinged at the bottom of the strip instead of opening only on the ends. It would be much more "archival" if one didn't have to slide film into and out of a long sleeve that is soft plastic material capable of holding embedded dust that scratches the entire length of the negative. I've even gone so far as to experiment with slicing a page of sleeves to see if existing products could be modified. Doable? Yes. Practical? Not so much. I don't really have the equipment to produce what I envision, but it wouldn't be all that much for a producer that has the desire to make a better product.
 
I had a few scratches on some 35mm chrome last year. First I'd ever had in a long long time. Never scratched any 35mm b&w that I process. Never had a scratch on a lot of 120 chrome from the same lab. So I asked them nicely to help diagnose the cause.

We concluded it was occasional grit on the 35mm felt light trap. Cause was grit on the felt from me chucking back the used spools in the bag without using the film can. I never saw this doing b&w because I pry the canister open and don't pull the film back out through the felt. But the way they load 35mm E-6 if to pull it back out of the cannister through the felt. When I started putting the used canisters back inside the film can, the scratches went away.

I've been pushing 120 and 35mm film into and out of PrintFile sleeves for years and never seen a scratch. Maybe I just live right.
 
It is most likely the sleeves I had this problem when I switched to the printfile Ultimita which I didn't realize was designed for sleeved negs but it can happen with regualr sleeves too. Best bet is to get some of the sleeving material that the labs use, it comes in 50' or 100' rools and THEN put your negs in sleeves. This will protect the negs as you take them in and out which is what causes the scratches...
 
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