How do I go about buying an MP?

I should also add that I know that the photographer and the glass makes the most difference, which I have not ruled out the Zeiss 35mm Biogon f/2! Those make BEAUTIFUL images.. (envy)
 
I'd love to get a new MP, a new M7, AND a new M9. Those a la carte models are tempting. But you if you really want an MP (or an M7), you really can get a model that is more or less new on the used market for 40-50% of the retail price. You could get an M7 and an MP, most likely with their stickers still on them, for the price of a new MP. Or a used MP and a *nice* lens of your choice, or several ZM/CV/older Leica lenses.

I think I might get a used camera. Oh wait, I did. :D
 
Damn, I'm with Tom on this one. You could get a really decent M6 and a couple great lenses + reams of film, and still have money left over for traveling.

If there is any improvement on getting an MP over an M6, it has to be incremental.

Which makes the most sense?

Approx. $1400 for an EX+ condition M6, or $5600 for an MP?

Definitely not the MP, especially for a student who's just starting out and might have trouble shouldering the financial burden of such an expense.

I mean seriously -- a $4200 premium for an MP over an M6? How much better can it be? For that price, it better give you Pulitzer prize-winning photos with every roll! :)
 
"MP a camera for the rest of the life time" ... I always get curious about this statement. The amount of sold used Leica MP cameras is quite high ... ;)

I would get some M Leica (pretty any model will do), one good lens and start taking photos. That can be pretty easily done in the $1000 range and for the rest of the money (difference to a new MP + adequate quality lens) you can travel and use that camera. :)
 
There is something wonderful about buying a new M, I loved my M4-P and M6. But when I look at the price of a couple of Nikon SPs and all the glass I could ever need when I started I could just kick myself for not going that way. I would have saved a LOT of money. Not in buying the new Ms, they were at a reasonable price compared to where new Ms are, but in all the other paths I’ve taken between now and then.

Everyone needs to find their way down the path of discovery. The relative cost of the MP is way higher than I would have ever thought of plunking down. When I got my Leica Ms new the Internet was not as full of info and options on great used stuff as it is today. There are lots of great Leicas out there and after a CLA trip to Sherry or Don will work even smoother than an MP. You can buy good an M2 and M3, get them painted and CLAed by the best and still have money left over for some world class glass.

B2
 
If a camera is just a light tight box as some have suggested, buy a new Bessa at a fraction of the cost. Don't waste your time getting a 50 year old body (the darling of the hair shirt brigade) which is tantamount to driving a decades old Morris Minor (no heater, no aircon, no power brakes or power steering etc). How many new cars will you buy in your life time and at what cost? Guarantee they'll all end up on the scrap heap long before an MP. Buy it without regrets.
 
secksthoi said:
Once I have saved enough, how do I go about buying this camera?
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1. Bend over
2. Hope perfection is mechanical perfection
3. Roll dice
4a. Even- Precious is good to go for many years. Wipe CLA from your memory banks.
4b. Odd- Precious needs servicing cause tolerances are too tight. Bummer. See #1.
 
At the top of the page Kemal Mumcu says that you can't buy a new M6. That is not strictly accurate: mint or new M6s crop up steadily on German Ebay and obviously even the "Buy Now" prices are well below the price of a new MP. A new M6 must be worth consideration. I just managed to pick up an absolutely mint M6 from a German shop for 999 Euros. The bargains are out there.
 
Well, I think a MP would be a great graduation present to yourself after working so hard to get through college. But I would only get one if I could afford some nice glass to go with it. I think we all know that the true secret to great pictures.
I have a M6 and enjoy it very much. Also a M3. You will probably enjoy having a meter in the long run. So I would say go for the M6 if you were going to have to cut back on the glass to swing for the MP.
 
ferider said:
Just because it can be bought new, the MP is not Leica's film "flagship".

M3 and M6 are the most successful Ms, in terms of production numbers and use - by a far margin.
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I'm not sure if production numbers and use are the best measures of a camera's 'success', given that the M3 and M6 were produced over a longer period of time; when digital cameras were not available; when Leica M's were the epitome of the compact, silent film camera; and when film M's were the mainstay of Leica's business.

Sure, they've made a lot more M3's and M6's. But that was long before digital cameras and the dwindling popularity of film.

I'll bet that if you measure M9 sales against M9 production, it would be the most successful Leica camera at the moment. I'll bet they sell every single one they make within weeks, if not days of it hitting a dealer. If mint and 'new' M6's regularly turn up on German ebay, that might say something about how many were made vs. how many were sold in a timely manner.

Would sure love to get a mint M6 for a nice price!

And to the OP: I don't know how extensively you've shot with a Leica M before, but you need to consider that manual rangefinder shooting might not be for you. I had an absolutely frustrating month of learning new habits when I got my M9, and there were times when I questioned whether I did the right thing.

But I will say that using Leica M's has been one of the most fulfilling parts of my photography so far. There is nothing like the balance in your hand, the soft snick of the shutter, and the smooth stroke of the wind lever. The stripped down nature of the cameras makes you think, and paradoxically simplifies matters.

The price of a MP will buy you a M6 in excellent condition, plus a couple of great lenses. You'll get Leica build quality and experience in a much more economic form. And if you get the viewfinder upgraded to the MP style, you'll still only spend a much lesser amount, which can be put into travel.

This is my experience, so take it as it is. I once saw the most gorgeous looking mint chrome MP in my local dealer. I played with it for about ten minutes, maybe more, and it just didn't do it for me. I don't know what it was, something about the balance and the way it felt in my hand. The shutter didn't sound that good, either. But somehow, about a year later, I handled a M7 and it felt so good. Perhaps because I had already been shooting with a M9 for six months beforehand, but for whatever reason, the M7 just felt better.

If you are able, go to secondhand dealers and handle as many of these cameras as you can. Wind the levers, focus the lenses, click the shutters. I think you need to feel them for yourself before you make any real decisions. Good luck!
 
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Remember, most of these posts are just opinions. Much of the internet chatter in "Leica Land" is just that -- chatter. And because few of us have the heart (because Leicas are so expensive) to go out and purchase and use and come to our own conclusions based on experience, we listen, and we read.

With Leicas you go with the right side of the brain, not left. It has nothing to do with logic. It's all about heart. Ask yourself: What camera turns you on at an emotional level?

Folks are correct when they say the lens takes the picture. But I can understand someone who wants to put good money into the body. After all, the camera stays in your hand all the time and lenses change. For this reason, there always seems to be more of an emotional connection with the body, as opposed to the lens. And a lot of these guys who are telling you to get a so-so body with a great lens have a dozen m cameras on their shelves.

But you probably won't be happy unless you have a good lens to go with the good body. Fortunately, as already noted, zeiss and voightlander provide suitable, less expensive options.

And here's my opinion: Buy used, unless you're getting a digital M. Leicas are just too expensive now days. And there's no guarantee that a couple years from now you'll still be digging the same camera. Creative people tend to get bored easily. That's one reason why many of us have a bunch of cameras in the house. The point is that if you purchase used, you can turn around and resell and probably recapture much of your money. The same is likely not true if you purchase new, unless you hold onto the camera for a longer period of time. I don't the same crazy price increases we have seen from Leica continuing.
 
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nobbylon said:
Agreed, save your money and get an M6.
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I disagree. If you want an MP, then an M6 isn't going to do anything for you. It's the same with the M3-M2-M4 compared to an M6. Sure, an M6 can just as good pictures, but if we're using that logic then why even shoot a Leica?
 
thomasw_ said:
...the in-camera meter is very annoying, especially in low light situations when you get a red haze with which to contend ;) A good M3/2/4 runs as smooth or smoother than a MP in my experience.....
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It's good advice to also consider the old classics (M3-M2-M4) when thinking about purchasing an MP. After all, part of the appeal of the MP is that it looks like those old cameras.

But the clarity of the modern rangefinder is noticeably better then the old cameras, even those that received a CLA. I'm thinking about my own M4 here. I've never used an M2 or M3.

I've never had a problem with the meter inside an M6 or MP being distracting. Never even fathomed that it would be a problem, until I read about it here. Tom A. also mentions it in this thread, but he's from Canada too. It must be the water up there. :)
 
awilder said:
A used M6 will do nicely. The build quality of the MP is at best marginally ....


Any Wetzlar M body prior to the M4-2 has a better build quality, just ask knowledgeble repair people like DAG or Sherry Krauter.
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When the MP came out back in '03 there was a lot of chatter and specifications about how the MP was much more robust then the M6. I forget the particulars, but people were pointing to specifics. And although I love Sherry and respect DAG, I doubt either has worked on more then a handful of MPs.

The fact is that either an MP or M6 will likely last a lifetime. They are both solidly built, as are most m cameras. I've probably put 700-1000 rolls in my MP since '03 and it's just humming along fine. No problems.

The recently acquired M4 I have (with a new CLA) is no more smooth; in fact, I feel the MP is more smooth -- but that means nothing.
 
Check out Bergan County Camera. They have a used (0.85) MP. Expensive, but fairly priced in today's market. I've seen pics. It's a custom job.
 
The MP has a different material for the shutter brakes (a new bronze alloy compared to the M6TTL), improved machinig of the grears (felt smoothness) and a different rewind system (knob instead of crank). These are the only major differences, regarding "much more robust". The MP has however a more sophisticated RF system compared to the M6TTL and an again improved metercircuit (contactless adjustment of the meter EEPROM).


steveyork said:
When the MP came out back in '03 there was a lot of chatter and specifications about how the MP was much more robust then the M6. I forget the particulars, but people were pointing to specifics. And although I love Sherry and respect DAG, I doubt either has worked on more then a handful of MPs.

The fact is that either an MP or M6 will likely last a lifetime. They are both solidly built, as are most m cameras. I've probably put 700-1000 rolls in my MP since '03 and it's just humming along fine. No problems.

The recently acquired M4 I have (with a new CLA) is no more smooth; in fact, I feel the MP is more smooth -- but that means nothing.
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I've never owned any Leica M camera so I can't really comment on which one of them is better. I can only say what I would do if I were in your shoes. Instead of waiting until the end of the year to spend a lot of money for a camera that you may or may not like, why not buy a used camera you can afford right now? The good thing about used cameras is they usually don't depreciate much if you get one at a decent price to begin with. You could buy an M2 or M6 (or whatever M) right now, use it and keep saving up for an MP. If, by the time you have the money, you still feel like you want a new MP you can just sell the camera you have and put the money towards the new one.
 
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