How loud is a ZI?

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mikebridge

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I'm a rangefinder newbie, and I've been reading about Zeiss Ikons as possibility for doing street photography. I love my D80, but it is large and loud. It's hard to heft around with me during my day, and it is fairly loud and obvious while I'm using it.

One question I have about the ZI is: how loud are they? I've read different things about this, but the problem is that I've never heard a Leica or any other major RF in use, so the comparisons with those don't help me too much. I have a little Voigtlander VF135 which sounds like a BB-gun shooting wax paper, and a Kiev 4 which sounds like a large stapler gently stapling a small paperback.

I want to be able to quietly take pictures of someone 6-10 feet away, ideally even during very light traffic, without having them look up from whatever they're doing to see what's getting smacked by a BB. How stealthy would a ZI be for scenarios like this?

Thanks!

-Mike
 
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It's not as loud as a DSLR, but still noticeable if it is quiet. It's a different sound though, because you won't hear the mirror going up and back down. It's just a little "snick" then it's over, in comparison to what a DSLR does. I think this also makes it a bit less obtrusive. Leicas are supposed to be quieter.

But if you want totally silent, digital point and shoots seem to be the way to go :(. There is also the Hexar with stealth mode that someone can provide more info on. I haven't tried it.
 
I can do no better than to quote from the review on my web-site:

http://www.rogerandfrances.com/photoschool/zeiss.html

"The vertical-run metal-bladed shutter is different in note from the Leica, and arguably slightly more obtrusive -- more of a 'click' than a 'clop' -- but it is not significantly noisier. It is of course faster running, allowing a top speed of 1/2000 instead of 1/1000 and a synch speed of 1/125 instead of 1/50. "

That was directly comparing the two by ear, as I do not have a decibel meter. I'd prefer a Leica for the scenario you describe, but it wouldn't be decisive.

A much quieter option than either is any leaf-shuttered fixed-lens RF (or indeed TLR), which will have the advantage of a decent viewfinder (unlike most digis) and no need to turn off the flash (most point-and-shoots).

Whether or not they look will also depend on how smoothly and unobtrusively you work. Faff around, even with a silent camera, and you will draw attention to yourself.

Finally, get someone to fire your Kiev from 6 feet away and notice how much quieter it sounds than when you're holding it.

Cheers,

Roger
 
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It's not really much louder than my M2 but it is a much more metalic sound with a higher pitch. It wouldn't draw attention on the street but would be noticable in a quiet room.
 
I've never understood how an online audio clip could be used to determine how loud a shutter is. It may (may) give you an idea of what it sounds like (depending on both the recording and playback devices), but 'loudness' is dependent on your speaker volume without another reference point.

Anyway, the Ikon is not "loud." I've owned M7s in the past, and now i have the Ikon. I would suggest that any itsy-bitsy difference in loudness between an Ikon and any of the various Leica models is insignificant for just about any purpose short of courtroom, church, or movie set work.

The best thing to do is try them for yourself. Descriptions of shutter sounds tend to be nonsensical. And, i don't believe shutter sound is what determines ultimate "stealth." People shoot street with all manner of cameras, and it's technique that determines what you 'get away with.' If you're pointing a camera in someone's direction, they may have a reaction whether they hear a shutter or not. Consider using wider lenses, so that the person doesn't realize he's even in the frame. And, or holding your position long after you've actually snapped, as if you were waiting for the person to move. My feeling, though, is that the people who capture INTERESTING street photographs don't really rely on trickery. They're secure in themselves, upfront about what they're doing, and they have ideas they will execute regardless of the subject's perception.
 
If you like half cases you can add some sound deadening foam to the inside of the case and muffle the shutter sound. I would think that if you want something quieter, that, a Mamiya 7 which sync's to 1/500 sec. would be a silent choice that also can take higher resolution photos.
 
The idea behind the sound files isn't to just give you an idea of the volume of the shutter but also to offer a comparative selection of sounds -- that is, how each camera sounds relative to other cameras.

I recorded nearly all of them at the same time, so you can get a real sense of how cameras with leaf shutters sound different. The Contarex, of course, has a very distinctive sound, while you can really hear how the Bessa cameras are louder than the Zeiss Ikon although not as loud as the Rolleiflex SL66.

Once you get outside, ambient noise tends to make any shutter noise less obvious. A half case does a good job at further muffling shutter noise.

Certain cameras attract attention: Most SLRs and twin-lens cameras (because they are retro). I rarely ever get comments when I'm out with a rangefinder except from other photographers and the occasional passerby.

SLRs (digital or film) almost always attract attention because they generally have a zoom attached with a big honking lens shade. People know what exactly what they are, and they know what you're planning to do with it.
 
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Once you get outside, ambient noise tends to make any shutter noise less obvious. A half case does a good job at further muffling shutter noise.
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To right. Also shoot up wind (if you can). In a quiet building you can hear a mamiya 7 shutter go off at 20 paces, and it is quieter than the leica or ZM shutters.
 
I agree---I just want something that doesn't make everyone stop what they were doing to see where the loud noise came from. It sounds like the ZI is good in this regard, and based on the online samples, the quality of the sound is not that obtrusive (which is something more important than decibels).

Unfortunately, there are no dealers anywhere nearby so I have to rely on what people tell me. :)

Cheers!

-Mike



CK Dexter Haven said:
I've never understood how an online audio clip could be used to determine how loud a shutter is. It may (may) give you an idea of what it sounds like (depending on both the recording and playback devices), but 'loudness' is dependent on your speaker volume without another reference point.

Anyway, the Ikon is not "loud." I've owned M7s in the past, and now i have the Ikon. I would suggest that any itsy-bitsy difference in loudness between an Ikon and any of the various Leica models is insignificant for just about any purpose short of courtroom, church, or movie set work.

The best thing to do is try them for yourself. Descriptions of shutter sounds tend to be nonsensical. And, i don't believe shutter sound is what determines ultimate "stealth." People shoot street with all manner of cameras, and it's technique that determines what you 'get away with.' If you're pointing a camera in someone's direction, they may have a reaction whether they hear a shutter or not. Consider using wider lenses, so that the person doesn't realize he's even in the frame. And, or holding your position long after you've actually snapped, as if you were waiting for the person to move. My feeling, though, is that the people who capture INTERESTING street photographs don't really rely on trickery. They're secure in themselves, upfront about what they're doing, and they have ideas they will execute regardless of the subject's perception.
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It's quiet. When you hear the shutter, it's activating 6 inches from either ear. A subject 3 meters away will not hear what you hear--it's the seeing AND hearing of your D80 that your subjects are observing. 6 feet is rather close to go 'stealth'--the 'camera to eye' silhouette/stance is almost universally recognizable. Better to shoot from the hip; any noise will be 'unrecognizable' without a camera in view.

The ZI is quieter AND smaller, and if you've used a Kiev or Zorki for even a few rolls and didn't hate it, you'll wet your pants the first time you shoot with the Ikon...
 
I love and hate the Kiev. It's very unergonomic, but it is still fun to use. The results I get with it can be pretty good. Everyone wonders what the heck it is.

After a lot of research on this forum and elsewhere I ordered a ZI today. Can't wait for it to arrive!

-Mike



Berliner said:
The ZI is quieter AND smaller, and if you've used a Kiev or Zorki for even a few rolls and didn't hate it, you'll wet your pants the first time you shoot with the Ikon...
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Thanks---I will definitely have a look at those half-cases, though more for protection than for sound. (I don't need super-stealth, just something that doesn't go off like a shot.)

-Mike

Zenjitsuman said:
If you like half cases you can add some sound deadening foam to the inside of the case and muffle the shutter sound. I would think that if you want something quieter, that, a Mamiya 7 which sync's to 1/500 sec. would be a silent choice that also can take higher resolution photos.
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Zeiss sells a very pricey ever-ready case, and at the price you might as well buy something from Luigi. Is the Zhou product available for the Zeiss Ikon? In addition to to muffling the shutter, it also serves to protect the camera, which isn't a bad thing. However, keep in mind that it makes the entire package a bit larger -- so there's always a tradeoff.

Drop a note and tell us what you think about the camera. Remember to always keep a spare set of batteries.
 
maybe keith can correct me on this but its definitely louder than my hexar. but the vf is a thing of beauty. that's my impression from holding and firing a zi in a store for about 10 mins. i also held my first leica too!
 
infrequent said:
maybe keith can correct me on this but its definitely louder than my hexar. but the vf is a thing of beauty. that's my impression from holding and firing a zi in a store for about 10 mins. i also held my first leica too!
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The Hexar has a funny sound ... sort of a 'clack' followed by the sound of the motor wind. Very hard to compare to the Ikon but I think the Zeiss would definitely win out in a quiet room for attracting less attention!
 
As I understand it the Zeiss Ikon shutter is a double copal square, same as the Voigtlander.

Sure, it clicks but not so very much in day to day use.

Of course the Leica cloth shutter is quieter, but any leaf shutter is quieter still than the Leica.
 
Have you tried firing your Kiev at 1/25? No focal plane shutte I know is quieter than that, Leica or otherwise. If that is too loud for you, you'll need a leaf-shutter camera.

Philipp
 
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