How Low Will Used M9 / M9 Prices go once the M10 arrives?

[sig]

What is all this B+W sensor only talk?

Why on earth would a business decide to introduce a product that would reduce it's overall sales vs one that would increase it's overall sales?

B&W only.... I think that is a good question. Maybe it has to do with the history of Leica being used by famous street photographers from a time when B&W was the only usable choice? (Leica = street = B&W)

I think the prices will go more down than they have up to now. They might go lower than the M8 too (compared in percentage), it seems like there are more M9 cams than M8 out there.

 

[Ben Z]

I think the prices will go more down than they have up to now. They might go lower than the M8 too (compared in percentage), it seems like there are more M9 cams than M8 out there.

How many people do you think would pay more for an M8 than an M9???

 

[Nikon Bob]

What is all this B+W sensor only talk?

Why on earth would a business decide to introduce a product that would reduce it's overall sales vs one that would increase it's overall sales?

Wondered the very same thing. Only on RFF would that B&W only sensor even come up but then again it is Leica we are talking about. You never know.

Bob

 

[RFA]

I think the M10 will have the same percentage effect on the M9 prices as the M9 had on the M8 when [and if] it comes out, I don't really think it matters what the M10 will be, there are always plenty people that want and can afford the latest thing, and there's plenty people like me that let them take the hit and buy their old gear
Ron

 

[Roger Hicks]

Assumptions and predictions so far are all on a new FF model. What if it would be based on a state-of-art APS-C sensor?! Leica enjoys the widest spectrum of lenses for the APS-C size too...

(Quite possible.. )

Possible, but deeply unlikely, given the heritage of FF lenses. I'd quite like to see an APS-C Leica, but with a new set of lenses designed for the format. On the other hand, why would they bother? Leica owners tend to be traditionalists with a weakness for old lenses, and besides, Leica can't meet demand as it is.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Great, now we are going to have to start speculating about the M11!

And the M12.... and M13.... Or of course we can use the cameras we have, or even buy what's available, without worrying about or trying to second-guess what will come out when.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Beemermark]

In my 30 years experience, Leica prices drop 40~50% from new in the used market. If a M8 cost $4750 new, then used in exc+++ condition it is going to sell for ~ $2200 (even if never actually used).

New models are always introduced at a significantly higher price then the last model. Therefore the used prices either stay the same, or tend to increase. So when the M9 came out at ~$9000, the used price was / is about 60% of $9000 or $5400. So for a lot of buyers the M8 used price of $2200 still looks pretty good.

When, and if, the M10 comes out I'd guess the price will be over $10K. Nothing on the M10 will obsolete the M9 or M8. The prices on the M8 and M9 are going to look pretty good to a lot of people and watch prices go up.

Because Leica cannot meet the current demand for normal lenses prices have sky rocketed for new 50's. Have you seen the prices for older 50's go down?

 

[Keith]

And the M12.... and M13.... Or of course we can use the cameras we have, or even buy what's available, without worrying about or trying to second-guess what will come out when.

Cheers,

R.

But, but Roger ... this is the way the world works!

Mankind needs to wonder what may be around the next corner otherwise we'd all be sitting in our caves, wrapped in skins, scratching on the walls with sticks of charcoal! 😀

 

[Roger Hicks]

In my 30 years experience, Leica prices drop 40~50% from new in the used market. If a M8 cost $4750 new, then used in exc+++ condition it is going to sell for ~ $2200 (even if never actually used).

New models are always introduced at a significantly higher price then the last model. Therefore the used prices either stay the same, or tend to increase. So when the M9 came out at ~$9000, the used price was / is about 60% of $9000 or $5400. So for a lot of buyers the M8 used price of $2200 still looks pretty good.

When, and if, the M10 comes out I'd guess the price will be over $10K. Nothing on the M10 will obsolete the M9 or M8. The prices on the M8 and M9 are going to look pretty good to a lot of people and watch prices go up.

Because Leica cannot meet the current demand for normal lenses prices have sky rocketed for new 50's. Have you seen the prices for older 50's go down?

Highlight: Initially, true. But then they start going up again... I'd love to buy an M2 for GBP 160:1:4d (1966 price). True, digi Ms are deeply unlikely to behave in the same way, but I'd still suspect that they'll hold their price better an other digital cameras, and maybe even increase in price eventually.

Otherwise, I'd agree without trying to add anything to what you've said.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Roger Hicks]

But, but Roger ... this is the way the world works!

Mankind needs to wonder what may be around the next corner otherwise we'd all be sitting in our caves, wrapped in skins, scratching on the walls with sticks of charcoal! 😀

Sort of, but there's a big difference between sitting in the cave wondering; going out hunting with the spear you've got; and dithering over using a fire-hardened spear at all because sooner or later someone else is going to invent stone spear heads.

Cheers,

R.

 

[sojournerphoto]

One aspect of Leica's pricing policy that has not yet been revealed is how much they'll charge for the M10 when it arrives. If, as they appear to have stated, they want to eveolve the digital M on a 3 yearly cycle, in line with other digital white (black?) goods, then they may be forced to adopt similar pricing policies to their competitors and so the price of the top model may be expected to remain fairly constant as it benefits from improvements.

I don't have a view, but I wonder if constantly inflating new digital camera prices during a worldwide recession is a viable business model. The chips get very expensive if you don't buy a lot of them.

Cheers

Mike

 

[Beemermark]

Highlight: Initially, true. But then they start going up again... I'd love to buy an M2 for GBP 160:1:4d (1966 price). R.

Gotta compare apples to apples. That M2 for GBP 160 in 1966 is probably a lot more than a new M9 in today's dollars.

Roger - Totally off topic, do you still have the R100RS? Getting the heads drilled for dual plugs finally. I had to replace the starter, then figured I might as well fix those leaking push rod seals and one thing leads to another.

 

[Keith]

Leica will definitely hoist the price of the M10 as far as they dare I'll wager!

Kind of makes you wonder how Nikon can bring out the D800 at a price almost the same as the D700 when it was released ... with substantial improvements into the bargain!

 

[jarski]

Wondered the very same thing. Only on RFF would that B&W only sensor even come up but then again it is Leica we are talking about. You never know.

applauds for person who managed to sneak that into discussion, here or LUF 😀 for a moment it seemed only feature everyone wanted for M10!

am throwing a guess that moderately used, no warranty M9's drop around 2800EUR range?

 

[umcelinho]

launching a new camera that only shoots in B&W is as smart as launching a mobile phone that will exclusively send sms.

i'm hoping for M9 prices to drop even more after the M10 is released, but if the M10 brings interesting features and its price is not absurd (yeah right), it might be a more appealing option.

 

[raid]

I will wait until the M10 comes out to decide what to buy. The cost of such cameras is quite high, so buying one model just to find out that the new model is much superior (somehow) would be a blow.

I expect initially to see a modest drop in prices for the M9. Then the M10 will be used, and then we will see the true impact of the M10 on the prices for the M9.

 

[jsrockit]

I'd quite like to see an APS-C Leica, but with a new set of lenses designed for the format. On the other hand, why would they bother? Leica owners tend to be traditionalists with a weakness for old lenses, and besides, Leica can't meet demand as it is.

Right, but hasn't Leica already indicated they are making an APS-C camera as we errrr, speak.

 

[sig]

With the new owners leica might try to make money on a aps-c type camera. Production can be outsourced so no need to slow down on the M9 production.

 

[Richard G]

I recently bought an M9-P, abandoning the idea of waiting for an M10. Basically I now have a perfectly brilliant 54 year old film camera, the M2, and a days old digital equivalent, the M9. I don't need all the subsequent iterations of the M film Leicas and I certainly won't need the next iteration of the full frame digital Leica. Or the one after that, or the one after that.

Meanwhile, with the move back to Wetzlar my advisors tell me that the M10 is a way off yet.

 

[Nikon Bob]

I will wait until the M10 comes out to decide what to buy. The cost of such cameras is quite high, so buying one model just to find out that the new model is much superior (somehow) would be a blow.

I expect initially to see a modest drop in prices for the M9. Then the M10 will be used, and then we will see the true impact of the M10 on the prices for the M9.

That is always a problem with 3 or so year model replacement cycles, there is always a new improved model in the pipe. If you have an M9 and it meets your needs then upgrading immediately is not that important. Just the other side of that coin.

Bob