Until Ebay requires that sellers post serial numbers of the items that they sell, and require that they deliver that same item, they are open to rip-offs like this. That one move would make Ebay a much safer place to trade. But they are not going to until people stay away in droves and they start losing money. That will force them to take some common sense measures. I've taken some risks, and come up with some real deals. Been burned a couple of times, and asked for and received partial refunds from the sellers. As Roger said, the "bad ones" were ammortized over a $200 Canon 50mm F0.95 in M- condition, a Nikon S3 advertised and priced as an S2 by a New York camera shop, and a $900 Nikon SP with F1.4 lens- needed the RF adjusted. So I go to Ebay, but shop here at RFF more often.
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parks5920
Well-known
Roger Hicks said:
I am not better than anyone, I do trust people and I don't get ripped off.
When someone gets ripped off, they already feel bad about it, no need to make them feel any worse.
Jason
iggers
Established
I'm surprised that you posted negative feedback already, as that pretty much limits your options as far as getting the seller to make things right is concerned. I suppose you can still file some sort of complaint with Ebay, and possibly also with PayPal. You should do so, but don't count on getting any remedy now that you've used up the leverage that your feedback might have afforded.
back alley
IMAGES
i need to point out that nothing was deleted, at least not by me.
i think the post in question is at the top of this page.
ag, you were just fine in coming here to state your case and even if you were looking for sympathy i think this is the place to come.
we understand each other here much better than most of our friends & family understand us, ABOUT THE WHOLE PHOTO/RF/EBAY/FORUM THING.
this is why i prefer this forum be more like a sanctuary than a hotbed of ...whatever.
if we can't talk to or commiserate with each other - than with who?
joe
i think the post in question is at the top of this page.
ag, you were just fine in coming here to state your case and even if you were looking for sympathy i think this is the place to come.
we understand each other here much better than most of our friends & family understand us, ABOUT THE WHOLE PHOTO/RF/EBAY/FORUM THING.
this is why i prefer this forum be more like a sanctuary than a hotbed of ...whatever.
if we can't talk to or commiserate with each other - than with who?
joe
iggers
Established
You're entitled to your opinion ...
You're entitled to your opinion ...
You are entitled to your opinion. I disagree, at least in part. I don't think it is a good practice to insult people or mock them for mistakes. But I don't think Roger was doing that. I think its ok to point out to people, even people who are partly victims of their own carelessness or whatever, when they made a stupid mistake. People who venture onto a public forum to complain about an unfortunate situation they got themselves into do not have a right to be protected from blunt and even insensitive comments about their actions.
You're entitled to your opinion ...
You are entitled to your opinion. I disagree, at least in part. I don't think it is a good practice to insult people or mock them for mistakes. But I don't think Roger was doing that. I think its ok to point out to people, even people who are partly victims of their own carelessness or whatever, when they made a stupid mistake. People who venture onto a public forum to complain about an unfortunate situation they got themselves into do not have a right to be protected from blunt and even insensitive comments about their actions.
parks5920 said:
parks5920
Well-known
Joe, I couldn't agree more! 
Bertram2
Gone elsewhere
Roger Hicks said:
You are right, Roger, buying at Ebay IS gambling, nothing else. Steve is right, you must limit your bet therefore. You can win or lose. I've bought only filters and other small parts on Ebay and it workd always perfectly.
But I never ever would buy a used 35yo camera at Ebay for more than $60-80 , thats my limit of pain-free loss.
There is no use to complain about getting ripped off, our friend has just lost the game with a seller who looked VERY risky,as Steve pointed out correctly.
If Ebay or Paypal cannot do anything to get the money back (the rules were violated serioulsy) than this loss must be added to the 2005 Evilbay win and loss statistics of agphotography, which tells him at the end of the year how cheap all the bargains really were.
Begards,
Bertram.
back alley
IMAGES
just because it's ok doesn't mean we have to do it.
i'm not here to teach people life lessons.
joe
i'm not here to teach people life lessons.
joe
parks5920
Well-known
iggers said:
you and Hicks are entitled to YOUR opinion, and everyone else is entitled to theirs.
N
Nick R.
Guest
Buying on ebay is not gambling. It's a business operating like any other business in the US and subject to US law. Why everyone believes you should accept getting ripped-off graciously is beyond me. When I buy something mail order, I expect to receive the goods I ordered. No one would accept this kind of service from Sears or Wards. It shouldn't be accepted from Ebay. They run the auction house. They are responsible for keeping it legit.
parks5920
Well-known
By the way, Iggers, Hicks, I don't recall you being on your soap box when Jorge got ripped off?
S
sunsworth
Guest
eBay is a glorified version of a car boot sale or small ads in a newspaper. If isn't an auction house, no matter what people think. It mearly provides a conection between buyer and seller. A fraudulent buyer in Southeast Asia couldn't give a toss for US law.
If you receive faulty or damaged goods the last thing you should do is leave negative feedback. As has been said earlier the only likely result is that any dispute will not not be resolved. Leave negative feedback only when all other avenues have been explored, and expect negative feedack against you in return.
If you receive faulty or damaged goods the last thing you should do is leave negative feedback. As has been said earlier the only likely result is that any dispute will not not be resolved. Leave negative feedback only when all other avenues have been explored, and expect negative feedack against you in return.
zpuskas
Well-known
E-Bay is a gamble. I've also bought and felt the description was inaccurate. I once specifically asked about the light seals on a QL-17 and was told they were fine. When I got the camera is was goo! I asked for and received a reduction in price. Work with the seller to try to get resolution. Good luck!
Get to recognize and know the good sellers, and avoid the ones that start off selling high-ticket items with low/poor feedback. Do a search on completed auctions with the appropriate keywords if you really want something from a new seller. Never spend more than your "fun money". And look at some of the deals here, at RFF in the past month. $300 Canon P with lens; Leicaflex with Summicron for $150; $45 Lynx 14e; ...Why Ebay?
Terence T
Where'd my Bessa go?
Thankfully my past experience with receiving less than accurately described goods from ebay have always ended up positively. All it takes is a simple email describing the condition of the piece, pointing out that the auction listing did not indicate that defect and asking for a refund. It's worked fine for me and really, all you need to do is to ask nicely and not accuse the seller of being a thief. It could all be a simple mistake on their part and most will usually accept returns gladly.
bmattock
Veteran
Egads.
Roger is 100% correct. Never thought I'd write that (grin).
EBay is a risk/reward system, like any auction anywhere. You don't get to handle the merchandise beforehand - there is an 'as is' philosophy in place unless the seller actively comitted fraud. The risk is that you might not get what you thought you were getting. The reward is that you might get a better deal on something than you would at retail. It's as simple as that.
Now, what happened here appears to be either fraud or a seriously stupid seller - my judgement leads me to believe it could be either in the absence of more information, but I'd lean towards dishonesty or heavy-duty greed in this case.
The advice given was good - first, contact the seller, describe the problem, and ask for a refund.
If the seller refuses, or even waffles, take it to paypal / ebay. You have at least 30 days to report to your credit card company, so use that as a last ditch. Going to the big guns up front only screws the system up a bit.
In my experience, ebay/paypal favor the buyer by a long shot (I'll spare you my details as a seller). You should get your money back - if the seller has it. If not, you may have to go the credit card company, assuming you paid by credit card.
I noticed, as did others, that you placed a negative feedback already. That's probably a mistake. It was a hammer you held over the seller's head - now you've shot your bolt and can no longer threaten to harm their reputation - you've already done it.
Ebay tries to get you to think once, twice, three times before leaving a neg - but allows you to do it if you insist, of course. Kind of wondering why you went to the big guns up front.
Sorry you got burned, of course.
Best Regards,
Bill Mattocks
Roger is 100% correct. Never thought I'd write that (grin).
EBay is a risk/reward system, like any auction anywhere. You don't get to handle the merchandise beforehand - there is an 'as is' philosophy in place unless the seller actively comitted fraud. The risk is that you might not get what you thought you were getting. The reward is that you might get a better deal on something than you would at retail. It's as simple as that.
Now, what happened here appears to be either fraud or a seriously stupid seller - my judgement leads me to believe it could be either in the absence of more information, but I'd lean towards dishonesty or heavy-duty greed in this case.
The advice given was good - first, contact the seller, describe the problem, and ask for a refund.
If the seller refuses, or even waffles, take it to paypal / ebay. You have at least 30 days to report to your credit card company, so use that as a last ditch. Going to the big guns up front only screws the system up a bit.
In my experience, ebay/paypal favor the buyer by a long shot (I'll spare you my details as a seller). You should get your money back - if the seller has it. If not, you may have to go the credit card company, assuming you paid by credit card.
I noticed, as did others, that you placed a negative feedback already. That's probably a mistake. It was a hammer you held over the seller's head - now you've shot your bolt and can no longer threaten to harm their reputation - you've already done it.
Ebay tries to get you to think once, twice, three times before leaving a neg - but allows you to do it if you insist, of course. Kind of wondering why you went to the big guns up front.
Sorry you got burned, of course.
Best Regards,
Bill Mattocks
dcsang
Canadian & Not A Dentist
Ya know, everyone seems to be h-e-double hockey sticks bent on stating that Ebay is a crap shoot/gamble/deal with the devil etc. yet it does not have to be Ebay.
I've seen people get taken on Photo.net and on FredMiranda.com many times; and those places are supposed to be communities that care about each other.
Like anywhere online; even Amazon or Dell etc. you have to be sure you know what you're getting in exchange for your cash and trust. You do your due dilligence and you are, hopefully, rewarded with the item you initially wanted in the first place. Heck, I even asked today about Stephen Gandy's joint even though I know it seems legit and is a sponsor - I want to be sure that I'm getting what I ask for.
It's too bad that you got taken Agphoto and it's a hard lesson learned You have my sympathies and I hope that you get your money back and that, in the future, you're more careful and don't get swindled. Like the saying goes "one bitten twice shy.. "
Dave
I've seen people get taken on Photo.net and on FredMiranda.com many times; and those places are supposed to be communities that care about each other.
Like anywhere online; even Amazon or Dell etc. you have to be sure you know what you're getting in exchange for your cash and trust. You do your due dilligence and you are, hopefully, rewarded with the item you initially wanted in the first place. Heck, I even asked today about Stephen Gandy's joint even though I know it seems legit and is a sponsor - I want to be sure that I'm getting what I ask for.
It's too bad that you got taken Agphoto and it's a hard lesson learned
You have my sympathies and I hope that you get your money back and that, in the future, you're more careful and don't get swindled. Like the saying goes "one bitten twice shy.. "Dave
agoglanian
Reconnected.
i know.. that was yet another mistake i made by being so hasty to leave a negative.
they had left a positive because i am a quick and responsive payer. i appreciate joe being one of the only ones to see this post what it was for " aw bummer, i got screwed over, be careful when you buy on ebay" it seems as though so many of you just took this the wrong way. but i do appreciate those that offered up advice.
im young, i make mistakes, i learn from them, and move on. if this is going to cost me $360 to learn, then so be it. my car has cost me quite a bit of money learning mistakes. its all part of life lessons.
so please guys, lets not make this into some big fiasco issue, and lets not start turning on each other, because like it or not, we are all a big family, and we come to each other to talk about everything noone else will understand. lets not lose sight of that.
they had left a positive because i am a quick and responsive payer. i appreciate joe being one of the only ones to see this post what it was for " aw bummer, i got screwed over, be careful when you buy on ebay" it seems as though so many of you just took this the wrong way. but i do appreciate those that offered up advice.
im young, i make mistakes, i learn from them, and move on. if this is going to cost me $360 to learn, then so be it. my car has cost me quite a bit of money learning mistakes. its all part of life lessons.
so please guys, lets not make this into some big fiasco issue, and lets not start turning on each other, because like it or not, we are all a big family, and we come to each other to talk about everything noone else will understand. lets not lose sight of that.
doubs43
Well-known
I'd be interested in knowing if the Seller has been given an opportunity to make things right. So far, I don't think I've seen anything saying that the Seller and Buyer have actually talked this over or exchanged emails or anything. Maybe I've missed it in among the forest of messages on this thread?
If, as someone indicated, a negative feedback was posted without trying to correct the problem first, the Seller now has less incentive to cooperate and one of the strongest reasons to cooperate no longer applies.
I once had a seller mail MY lens to the wrong buyer. I was offered a refund which I refused, stating that I really would like to have the lens instead. It took about three weeks but I finally received my lens. While I undoubtedly caused the Seller some headaches, I got my lens and they got a positive feedback for their honesty and efforts.
Ebay is, without doubt, a crap shoot but it's one that can be won with a little care...... and a little luck. My last package had two "parts" cameras with lenses for $25.50 including shipping. For that I received two fully functional cameras with perfect factory lenses. I took a chance and was lucky. Next time I may not be so lucky.
Ag, it still may not be too late to retrieve the situation. A "negative" can, I believe, be removed if everyone agrees. Tell the Seller that you'll do what you can if she makes good on the transaction. If it can't be worked out, estimate what you received is worth in value and figure your lesson cost you the difference between what you paid and the value of the goods received.
Walker
If, as someone indicated, a negative feedback was posted without trying to correct the problem first, the Seller now has less incentive to cooperate and one of the strongest reasons to cooperate no longer applies.
I once had a seller mail MY lens to the wrong buyer. I was offered a refund which I refused, stating that I really would like to have the lens instead. It took about three weeks but I finally received my lens. While I undoubtedly caused the Seller some headaches, I got my lens and they got a positive feedback for their honesty and efforts.
Ebay is, without doubt, a crap shoot but it's one that can be won with a little care...... and a little luck. My last package had two "parts" cameras with lenses for $25.50 including shipping. For that I received two fully functional cameras with perfect factory lenses. I took a chance and was lucky. Next time I may not be so lucky.
Ag, it still may not be too late to retrieve the situation. A "negative" can, I believe, be removed if everyone agrees. Tell the Seller that you'll do what you can if she makes good on the transaction. If it can't be worked out, estimate what you received is worth in value and figure your lesson cost you the difference between what you paid and the value of the goods received.
Walker
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Dan Chang
Established
I disagree with you totaly.
ebay open a market for both buyer and seller, If I live in a small town and I am looking for some lens/camera, the only sourece is internet ebay or some dealers. I have bought lots of things, the dishornest people are very rare. and most of time I got good deal. for used gears the key is you have cheap repair osurce or you do do some simple CLA. DO not expect these 50-60's cameras and lenses will function like new even it looks like new/mint.
ebay open a market for both buyer and seller, If I live in a small town and I am looking for some lens/camera, the only sourece is internet ebay or some dealers. I have bought lots of things, the dishornest people are very rare. and most of time I got good deal. for used gears the key is you have cheap repair osurce or you do do some simple CLA. DO not expect these 50-60's cameras and lenses will function like new even it looks like new/mint.
Roger Hicks said: