I hear the dark side calling!

[BJ Bignell]

Hello all,

Equipment lust/GAS has finally attacked! I've held out for a long time, but now I've become one of those "looking for an M3" guys... :bang:

Strike 1: I've been considering an M3 for a while, because I'd like to have a longer baselength for more accurate focussing (I don't find the Bessa R capable of handling a 135). I'm also lazy, so anything that helps me work less hard will be fun!
Strike 2: I'm living in Germany for the next few months, and every camera shop here seems to sell Leicas. They're impossible to avoid.
Strike 3: The other day Josee (my girlfriend) says: "It'd be a shame if we left Germany and you didn't buy a Leica." NO KIDDING!

So, I'm getting serious about this. I will be going to the photo stores in the next few weeks to give some M3s a try, to see if I even like it or not. I've been through the archives, and found a lot of great information, but I have some specific questions:

1. I have the CV 50/1.5, 75/2.5, and 21/4 lenses. Will all of these work properly on the M3 with the adapter?
   
2. The M3 doesn't have 75 framelines, and I don't want to switch to a 90 (don't want the CV version, can't afford the Leica). Is it possible to modify the framelines somehow, or to add a new set (some tricky work with a screwdriver or something)?
   
3. W.r.t. the glass pressure plates in some older models, has anyone actually broken theirs? How much of a risk are they?
   
4. I've read about modifying the M3 close focus to 0.7m. How much work/cost is associated with this? Is it something I could do myself?
   
5. Can someone recommend a place in Germany, or Europe at least, for a CLA if needed?
   
6. Does anyone use the VC Meter II or other shoe-mount meter with their M3? Some impressions on usability would be nice.
   
7. Does it really make sense to have a Leica body and non-Leica lenses? Would I be better off with an R3a? I have little intention of upgrading my lenses unless I win the lottery (so says the man with GAS); at the most I would add a cheap 35 (maybe something collapsible) to the current mix.
   
8. And finally, can someone recommend a place here in Germany (besides eBay) to find good deals? Are there particular papers to watch? Places/shops to see? The camera stores here in Cologne are rife with nice M3 bodies, but they average about €600/€700 for DS/SS bodies, and €1000 with a lens. I'm not collecting; I'm looking for a user, so those prices are out of budget.

I appreciate your input (and I apologize for the long-windedness).

Cheers,
BJ

 

[jaapv]

Second hand prices in Germany are on the high side. Would you consider neighbouring countries? THIS is my favorite shop and yes, The VC/meter is great with the M3.And yes, CV lenses work fine with Leica bodies, no problem. For work on my Leica I tend to send it to Leica Solms, not cheap, but very,very good and one can reduce the price somewhat by not sending it through a shop but directly.

 

[wyk_penguin]

I have the CV 50/1.5, 75/2.5, and 21/4 lenses. Will all of these work properly on the M3 with the adapter?

Yes, they will but like you said, you don't have the framelines for 21 and 75.​

The M3 doesn't have 75 framelines, and I don't want to switch to a 90 (don't want the CV version, can't afford the Leica). Is it possible to modify the framelines somehow, or to add a new set (some tricky work with a screwdriver or something)?

It takes more than a screwdriver, if possible. 75 is not a conventional focal length (i.e. One that leica uses :bang: ), to my limited knowledge, only CV produces that focal length for RF. I wonder if it is some kind of strategy to get you buying Bessas to produce 21, 40 and 75 instead of 28, 35, 50, 85 and 90.​

I've read about modifying the M3 close focus to 0.7m. How much work/cost is

associated with this? Is it something I could do myself?​

Getting a dual range summicron would do that.​

Does it really make sense to have a Leica body and non-Leica lenses? Would I be better off with an R3a? I have little intention of upgrading my lenses unless I win the lottery (so says the man with GAS); at the most I would add a cheap 35 (maybe something collapsible) to the current mix.

I see GAS coming out of the last sentence. Just wait till you ge t that 35 :angel: Anyway, the outfit you have works with the R2A (Like I said, it's a trick!!!) But if you really want a Leica, get one. If not a Bessa will do fine.​

 

[merciful]

[*]Does it really make sense to have a Leica body and non-Leica lenses?

Well, David Duncan Douglas and I are both OK with it.

 

[FrankS]

If I had to choose only a Leica body, or a Leica lens, I would go for a Leica body and "make due" with a Canon, NIkon, or CV lens, rather than the other way around (except for maybe a Contax or Nikon RF.)

 

[Stephanie Brim]

The M3 doesn't have 75 framelines, and I don't want to switch to a 90 (don't want the CV version, can't afford the Leica). Is it possible to modify the framelines somehow, or to add a new set (some tricky work with a screwdriver or something)?

It takes more than a screwdriver, if possible. 75 is not a conventional focal length (i.e. One that leica uses :bang: ), to my limited knowledge, only CV produces that focal length for RF. I wonder if it is some kind of strategy to get you buying Bessas to produce 21, 40 and 75 instead of 28, 35, 50, 85 and 90.​

Actually, Leica makes a 75 'lux. I don't think they make a camera with the framelines, though...

 

[Trius]

BJ: The big question no one has asked is: Does your girlfriend have a sister?

 

[a.black]

of course you could try a R3A, but only until you handled a Leica for a while. I made that mistake and my bessa is now green with envy. ;-)

 

[Stephanie Brim]

Oh, cool...I know what Leica I need to get, then, when it comes to that time.

75mm is nifty. Always wanted to use that focal length.

 

[ray_g]

Actually, Leica makes a 75 'lux. I don't think they make a camera with the framelines, though...

The M4-P and newer bodies have the 75mm frameline. The M4-P may be worth considering, as well, BJ. The EBL should still be enough to focus the 135mm. I don't know if there are many in the used market in Germany, though.

 

[captainslack]

Strike 3: The other day Josee (my girlfriend) says: "It'd be a shame if we left Germany and you didn't buy a Leica." NO KIDDING!

And you didn't propose on the spot?! What's the matter with you?

 

[BJ Bignell]

Guys and girls,

Thanks for the replies. I think tonight I'll go to Foto Gregor just to handle the M3, see if I like it. Maybe I'll try an M4-P or something similar, just to see (although low price is really a consideration here).

Like Stephanie said, the 75mm focal length is "nifty", and I'll going to make sure I can get the mileage out of the lenses I have. Has anyone used a 75mm external finder? Comments?

And for those of you wondering: Yes, Josee has two sisters, but they're both married with children. Sorry! And no, I didn't propose on the spot... took me by surprise, she did!

 

[RML]

In Muenchen there's Herr Wiener who does CLA's. He doesn't have email so you'll have to call him. IIRC his address and phone number can be found on the nemeng.com site. He did my M2 and very well he did. How about the English Leica experts? Luton and White, IIRC.

 

[iDude]

Uhoh... Foto Gregor is dangerous, dangerous, dangerous. I never go there with my credit card in my pocket.

 

[rover]

Aw, go nuts, get the M3 for your 50 and pick up an LTM 35 to park on the R. You can use the 35 and 75 on the R, 50 and 135 on the M3 and the 21 with it's finder can share time on both. You will need a couple adaptors so that they correct framelines will be called up on the M3 when you mount the lenses.

The M4-P is another good choice and generally is priced more favorably than other Leicas. Perhaps you can find a good deal on an M6 classic and skip the CV meter. Compare prices, M4-P or M3 + CV Meter = M6?

 

[BJ Bignell]

rover,

That's some good advice, and makes me realise that I forgot to mention something: If I go ahead with the M3 purchase, I'll be selling the chrome R but keeping the black R. I'd like two black cameras, and like the way the black M3 looks, but...

I'd need two adapters for the M3, right? One for 50, and one for 135? If I mounted anything else on the M3, I'd just use the 50 adapter (for the 21 it wouldn't matter what framelines were there). Am I correct in understanding that there is no frameline selector, only automatic selection, and in some cases an auto-return preview lever?

Also, I have two handheld meters already, but neither is that convenient. One is an ancient Sekonic selenium meter which can be really irritating sometimes, the other is a Minolta flash meter (III?). So in the short term, I'd survive with a combination of R, flashmeter, and common sense metering.

It's just that the VCII is a slick idea, and I think a black one would look really awesome on my Contessa LKE. If I'm buying it for TWO cameras, it's easier to get past the "boss", you know?

 

[Stephanie Brim]

Wait wait wait. This is a black M3? For HOW much?

 

[BJ Bignell]

No no no, I'm saying I would like to have a black M3, but the prices are ridiculous, so therefore it'll (maybe) be a black R and an ordinary silver M3.

 

[Fritz K.]

Hello all,

Equipment lust/GAS has finally attacked! I've held out for a long time, but now I've become one of those "looking for an M3" guys... :bang:

Strike 1: I've been considering an M3 for a while, because I'd like to have a longer baselength for more accurate focussing (I don't find the Bessa R capable of handling a 135). I'm also lazy, so anything that helps me work less hard will be fun!
Strike 2: I'm living in Germany for the next few months, and every camera shop here seems to sell Leicas. They're impossible to avoid.
Strike 3: The other day Josee (my girlfriend) says: "It'd be a shame if we left Germany and you didn't buy a Leica." NO KIDDING!

You´re a lucky guy ! So if your girl is already pushing you into that direction, GO FOR IT !

So, I'm getting serious about this. I will be going to the photo stores in the next few weeks to give some M3s a try, to see if I even like it or not. I've been through the archives, and found a lot of great information, but I have some specific questions:

1. I have the CV 50/1.5, 75/2.5, and 21/4 lenses. Will all of these work properly on the M3 with the adapter?
   
2. The M3 doesn't have 75 framelines, and I don't want to switch to a 90 (don't want the CV version, can't afford the Leica). Is it possible to modify the framelines somehow, or to add a new set (some tricky work with a screwdriver or something)?

1. 
   
   You can buy the aux. 75mm finder , but maybe that is not for you. Please consider buying a 90mm lens maybe a Elmar-C or a Tele-Elmarit. From my exp. i can recommend the TE. And i can live with the 50 / 90 combination. Focussing the 90 on a M3 should be easy.
   
   

   [*]Can someone recommend a place in Germany, or Europe at least, for a CLA if needed

   You can send the M3 to Solms directly. They give you an estimate after inspection. But be sure to be seated when the letter arrives. But the work is good of course. Had my R3 repaired twice - damned SLR . . .
   
   

   [*]And finally, can someone recommend a place here in Germany (besides eBay) to find good deals? Are there particular papers to watch? Places/shops to see? The camera stores here in Cologne are rife with nice M3 bodies, but they average about €600/€700 for DS/SS bodies, and €1000 with a lens. I'm not collecting; I'm looking for a user, so those prices are out of budget.

Not really, but there should be a camera fair (Kameraboerse) in Cologne in March and one in Ratingen near Duesseldorf on April 30th. If you can wait that long ?

regards,

 

[Stephanie Brim]

No no no, I'm saying I would like to have a black M3, but the prices are ridiculous, so therefore it'll (maybe) be a black R and an ordinary silver M3.

I was going to say...clue us ALL in to this deal.

You could always get a chrome M3 and have it professionally painted black later on. Wouldn't hurt the resale value of a user M3...in fact, it may help it.