I think see a fork in the road - a rant

[kshapero]

Eventually you will be an old timey film guy or superfragilistic digital guy. All discussions will be one or the other. The new Leica M (10) confirms it. A film guy will be left in the dust by phrases now common with digital guys like, focus peaking, live view, etc. Sure I know this stuff has been around for awhile but film guys (read Leica guys) always snubbed their nose at it. But now Leica has finally embraced the technology. The earlier digital Leica M's were really just film guy cameras that saved an exposure to an SD card instead of a film canister, but no more. Big question; will this forum split apart into two or can we all coexist even though our terminology will eventually be unknown to each other? Oh at least one thing still holds us together: Glass!!
Those of you who know me, know that I am mostly just waxing away but occasionally I can hit a futuristic nerve.
Ciao all.🙂

 

[leicashot]

The Leica M has changed for good and I don't like it. The new M is now easier to use and focus, making the use of it way more accessible to just about anyone who could afford it.

The lack of market presence made the M special, as a camera that required discipline and careful technique. Not any more. I will buy one because I use it for work but I'm personally disappointed, not to say I know better than Leica.

 

[sleepyhead]

Yeah, perhaps you're right.

I noticed particularly in the last two years (or so), the number of thread on RFF having to do with film cameras really going down (excluding threads like "oh no my favorite film is discontinued", etc.). I mean threads about pure analog RFF photography.

Hell, even I'm starting to look at used M9s.

But for the amount I shoot (around 50 rolls of 135 and 120 a year) with good old cameras that I've owned for years, I always conclude that it's too expensive to use a digital M.

 

[willie_901]

I understand what you are saying. And I will go out on a limb and say I think I know how you feel.

At the same time most new threads have titles that describe whether the topic will be oriented towards electronic imaging or film imaging. And, Many digital photographers have extensive film experience, so they may choose to add content to non-digital threads.

But the main reason why I don't see value in a split forum is many members actively use both types of cameras.

 

[Jaans]

The Leica M has changed for good and I don't like it. The new M is now easier to use and focus, making the use of it way more accessible to just about anyone who could afford it.

The lack of market presence made the M special, as a camera that required discipline and careful technique. Not any more. I will buy one because I use it for work but I'm personally disappointed, not to say I know better than Leica.

I tend to disagree. I think that it is rather evolutionary of Leica or any other camera manufacturer to produce cameras that are easier for the general chimp population to use.

I will happily use my older M cameras and the newer models can be used by people who don't have a sound technical knowledge.

 

[Keith]

Maybe the first generation digital Ms (M8 and 9) will actually become collectibles courtesy of a group who were happy to accept a sensor in place of a film cartridge but don't necessarily want all the other high tech mumbo jumbo that proliferates in todays digicams?

I see a generation of digital curmudgeons looming on the horizon! 😀

 

[fstops]

Photography is one straight infinite road, you either keep moving or you stay behind, or you sit by the side, or you get stepped over, or you're put aside.

 

[kshapero]

Maybe the first generation digital Ms (M8 and 9) will actually become collectibles courtesy of a group who were happy to accept a sensor in place of a film cartridge but don't necessarily want all the other high tech mumbo jumbo that proliferates in todays digicams?

I see a generation of digital curmudgeons looming on the horizon! 😀

Yes the third bunch!!

 

[loquax ludens]

I think you are right, Akiva, or at least it resonates with me. I do not know what focus peaking or live view is. I'm kind of curious, but I haven't gotten curious enough yet to google it.

My new MP should arrive on Friday. I debating with myself over what film to run through it first. It'll be B&W, that much is certain. I just haven't settled between Tri-X, Efke 50, Adox CHS 25, APX 100, Ilford Pan F+, T-Max 3200, or Tech Pan.

I'd hate to see the forum split though. I'm sure we can all get along together.

 

[kshapero]

Photography is one straight infinite road, you either keep moving or you stay behind, or you sit by the side, or you get stepped over, or you're put aside.

Sorry don't agree. There are, for example, a lot of Leica M3/2 users who will insist they have the most current state of the art!!

 

[Keith]

Ultimately of course it's the photographer's eye that sees/creates the picture ... not the camera or the medium it uses.

On that basis there's really no need to argue about much at all. 😀

 

[swoop]

This is exactly why Leica is branching off their cameras. The M is new and offers a bunch of useless crap that some people need to have to justify the price. The M-E/M9 is beng kept around for the purist, because basically that's as true to Leica tradition as it's ever going to get for a digital camera. And really. The high ISO quality of the M9 may not be amazing. But its very similar to film.

 

[fstops]

I can shoot film and digital, process film, process digital, if it comes to it I could even shoot plates and what not. My interest is photos, I'm a photo-guy not a film-guy or digital-guy, or rf-guy or slr-guy --- for me all tools of photography are equivalent, i use them for the end goal, which is the photo.

there is nothing in this world that cannot be learned, especially focus peaking which is basically a technology where by moving the focus ring the parts of image that are in focus turn into a particular color -- now why people won't understand that is beyond me...

 

[loquax ludens]

Photography is one straight infinite road, you either keep moving or you stay behind, or you sit by the side, or you get stepped over, or you're put aside.

It's more like a bowl of spaghetti. There are numerous ways to acquire and process and display images. The paths cross and intermingle. Hybrid approaches abound. You can capture on wet plate and scan for printing or display. You can acquire digitally and then produce ink jet negatives for contact prints and alternative processes. There are no rules, and no prohibitions. It's all up to you as a photographer what tools you choose and how you apply your vision.

 

[rxmd]

The Leica M has changed for good and I don't like it. The new M is now easier to use and focus, making the use of it way more accessible to just about anyone who could afford it.

The lack of market presence made the M special, as a camera that required discipline and careful technique. Not any more. I will buy one because I use it for work but I'm personally disappointed, not to say I know better than Leica.

Your argument boils down to that it's now too easy to use a Leica if I understand you correctly.

By counter-argument, is there really value in making cameras deliberately difficult to use so that only a selected enlightened few will want to use them? Shouldn't cameras distinguish themselves by what they enable you to do, not by how their arcane user interfaces restrict potential buyers to the kind of people you like?

 

[Keith]

This is a very insightful thread Akiva ... please allow me to offer you this new avatar as a token of my appreciation. 😀

 

[rxmd]

Photography is one straight infinite road, you either keep moving or you stay behind, or you sit by the side, or you get stepped over, or you're put aside.

Sorry, don't agree.

The fact that you're arguing this on a rangefinder forum of all places should be enough to show the contradiction in terms. We could argue this in more detail, but it seems hardly worth it.

 

[rxmd]

This is a very insightful thread Akiva ... please allow me to offer you this new avatar as a token of my appreciation. 😀

Keith, that's a nice one. Where is that? 🙂

 

[Keith]

Keith, that's a nice one. Where is that? 🙂

I have to confess I stole it off the net ... must have been some job carrying that huge fork out to the highway! 😀

I love google ... you can search for an image for damned near anything. LOL

 

[sebastel]

Keith, that's a nice one. Where is that? 🙂

looks like photoshop avenue to me, between GIMP junction and corel main station.