I wonder about travel photography..

[kennylovrin]

Hi

So, I'm going to start off with what is probably a bad idea, and just say that I am not exactly sure what I am trying to ask here, but I have this feeling I hope I can get through..

I'm purely a hobby photographer, I don't make any money, I never did any exhibitions and I am not really aiming for being a professional in any way. But I do think a lot about "what do I like to shoot" and how to tweak my abilities within that.

I used to be into macro/close up for some reason, but I kind of grew bored and started to think I did it because it is "easy" in the sense that the subject doesn't talk back to you, no one is looking at you etc.. A little less pressure perhaps.

I started thinking that what I actually like is something more along the lines of documentary style, perhaps street photography or something like that. The reason is because I find something interesting in capturing just everyday life, kind of like archiving what is going on around me. At the same time I am not the typical street shooter personality, both because I am "naturally" shy but also because I honestly do not support some of the ideas that gets thrown around when people discuss street photography (for example, I agree with "just because it's legal doesn't mean you can just go up to people and photograph them). That is perhaps a different discussion though.

But obviously I want to make as "good photos as possible", something that perhaps has a value for people other than myself and those close to me.. So for some reason I got stuck on trying to read up on street photography and tips, tricks and what not regarding that field. But I could never really shake the feeling that "go closer" and "don't ask" or even "do ask" is not my thing, I rather walk around and just look and "document"..

Then this year I have been travelling more than usual, and lately I started to think that the photos I enjoyed shooting the most, and also to look at, are photos from my travels. I really enjoy (in theory) taking a photo and show it to the world, if you know what I mean. Kind of "See what I saw here? You should see it too!". So I started to think "what does travel photography mean?". Is it just street photography, but away from home? Or is it communicating specific, more informational values, about a certain destination? What is the typical state of mind when trying to create a "travel photograph"?

Perhaps that cannot be defined so easily, just as any other "genre", but I think it all leads me to my semi-specific question;

What do you guys consider travel photography? Is it even to be considered a "genre" and in that case why? I don't see it discussed much in itself, but rather in a "I'm going on holiday to take family snaps" kind of way - do you agree? Is it perhaps not taken so seriously as a photographic field as for example street photography or pure documentary photo essays?

How does one improve it's travel photography? Is it reading up on the location, figuring out what brings the biggest value to the viewer of the photo? How does one go about travel photography in their hometown - is it trying to figure out what a tourist/visitor would find interesting etc?

I guess you can see that I am thinking out loud here, but I thought it could still be interesting to hear what you guys have to say about this. Purely philosophical and totally open. 🙂

Kenny

 

[Roger Hicks]

Dear Kenny,

One key to improvement is, as ever, practice.

The other key is deciding what you want the pictures to say. For me, pictures work vastly better with words, i.e. as part of an article. Unless there are words (or a theme) to tie them together, they are either happy-snaps or, if you're lucky and can write good captions, stock photos. Perhaps it is this subordination to words that leads to your saying, "Is it perhaps not taken so seriously as a photographic field as for example street photography or pure documentary photo essays?"

Take a look at http://www.rogerandfrances.com/subscription/pst malta.html -- a bit old now, but still showing what I mean.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Lumix]

I always thought a picture was worth a thousand words!
If all your pictures have to have words to go with them ............ !

Lumix

 

[gns]

"Travel Photography" (like most terms that attempt to pigeonhole) doesn't mean much to me. If you want to research it as a genre, you might start with someone like Francis Frith, or the Geologic Survey photographers of the 19th century American west.

This guy travels (a lot) to make photographs. I've linked to this video a couple of times already, but it seems relevant to your post. It's an hour long, but well worth your time. First half is a slide presentation. Second half is a Q&A. He also writes and speaks a bit about that in the video...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGaljgqHr7Q

 

[Richard G]

I read somewhere that anyone can take a good photograph on holiday. You're not working, and you may be somewhere new or even new and interesting. You see better on all counts. Another thing I read here was in a 35 v 50 thread. One contributor recommended the 35 as a great get-it-all in staple focal length. The next said sure, when he's on holiday, but around home, on his habitual photographic stomping ground, a 50 got in the frame as much as he wanted. Travel Photgraphy in some ways doesn't exist. Just a few thoughts.

 

[bonatto]

Hey Kenny,

I had a quick look through your website and it seems as if you already have a good visual narrative foundation.

If you'd like to expand a bit on knowledge, reading from others who do work you appreciate is always a good step forward.

This particular book by David DuChemin was very helpful before I started focusing seriously on how I could construct a body of work, and his e-books were useful during a couple of international trips (I occasionally go back and skim them, they're great reads).

Lastly, working with other photographers, a mentor, or going to portfolio reviews (appropriate ones) will always bring you fresh insight from a perspective that only someone else's eyes can bring.

Edit: In regards to the term, I echo other's feeling towards it. It's not really useful in explaining anything. You're photographing somewhere new, and you will use the voice that speaks to you at the time. Whether new or based on the old, it's up to each individual photographer.

Good luck, and keep on shooting!

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

You're looking at it backwards. You're looking for a 'killer subject' that will magically make your photos 'good'. There is no such subject. Great photographers all have one thing in common, and it doesn't matter what things they photograph, what culture they come from, how old or educated or wealthy they are. What they have in common is that they photograph things that truly, deeply interest them, that they want to tell the world about.

Photographers who fail are not passionate about anything except, perhaps, gear. Look inside yourself, and fill that emptiness in there, and you'll be on the path to greatness.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

In last twenty years I went on business trips a lot. Fifteen years ago I would woke up in hotel room and guess which country I'm.
I wasn't able to take many pictures. It was cheaper to videotape it.
Do I regret not to have pictures of Paris, London, New York, etc?
Not at all. From 2007 or so I started to take some "travel" pictures. Went through FF DSLR, expensive UWA lens, tripod, HDR, long exposure. It was fun, it wasn't waste of time instead of hotel room - bar sitting. It is good way to spend free time. It is in the past now, including heavy travel times.

If I'm on the business trip now, I'll go to take pictures to places I would learn at home first. Sometimes I'll ask local photogs on forums, sometimes I'll google it. But at my arrival to new place I would have schedule and maps where to go after work, including alternatives. This makes my travel photography sofitient.
If in the city, I don't take pictures of cityscapes on purpose. It is a gamble. Each landmark has its own time of the day and sky isn't perfect always.

I would suggest to OP not to be afraid of photographing of people.
Just think of them as important part of the picture.

If you see some interesting place, measure exposure, frame it and wait for someone to walk into the part of the frame you want to.

 

[kennylovrin]

Sorry about the huge replies! But perhaps easier to follow than multiple smaller ones!

Dear Kenny,

One key to improvement is, as ever, practice.

The other key is deciding what you want the pictures to say. For me, pictures work vastly better with words, i.e. as part of an article. Unless there are words (or a theme) to tie them together, they are either happy-snaps or, if you're lucky and can write good captions, stock photos. Perhaps it is this subordination to words that leads to your saying, "Is it perhaps not taken so seriously as a photographic field as for example street photography or pure documentary photo essays?"

Take a look at http://www.rogerandfrances.com/subscription/pst malta.html -- a bit old now, but still showing what I mean.

Cheers,

R.

Hi Roger!

Actually, for me personally I think what you are describing comes very close. I can understand what you are saying about words coupled with the photos. I have thought several times actually that I find it hard to just show a photo, and use that as the only narrative, and that I have an urge to write something about it. Kind of like using words, but adding the photo to illustrate the point.

I have never really reflected over that before.. Perhaps I should - I think maybe I've fallen for the "a photo should stand on it's own" perspective that some people tend to take. I have always preferred series as well, I find it very tricky to get something out of a single photo myself, or at least to get at what I want to get at.

Recently I started putting together a photo book for my family basically from a tip we did early this year. I did think that I really wanted to add words to it, try to describe using words as well. Then I realized that I had trouble finding words to several photos. That then led to me thinking "well why do I photograph this then". Perhaps what I am searching for here is what to start with, and it sounds obvious to me now, but starting with the story instead of the image makes the most sense..

"Travel Photography" (like most terms that attempt to pigeonhole) doesn't mean much to me. If you want to research it as a genre, you might start with someone like Francis Frith, or the Geologic Survey photographers of the 19th century American west.

This guy travels (a lot) to make photographs. I've linked to this video a couple of times already, but it seems relevant to your post. It's an hour long, but well worth your time. First half is a slide presentation. Second half is a Q&A. He also writes and speaks a bit about that in the video...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGaljgqHr7Q

Thanks! I agree that labeling things isn't perhaps the best or most productive way of discussing this, but I had trouble getting my "concerns" through without doing it. And as a matter of fact, part of the question is why the label exists - because it does, it has to mean that "travel photography" consists of something that is different from let's say "street photography"..

I will check out that video for sure!

I read somewhere that anyone can take a good photograph on holiday. You're not working, and you may be somewhere new or even new and interesting. You see better on all counts. Another thing I read here was in a 35 v 50 thread. One contributor recommended the 35 as a great get-it-all in staple focal length. The next said sure, when he's on holiday, but around home, on his habitual photographic stomping ground, a 50 got in the frame as much as he wanted. Travel Photgraphy in some ways doesn't exist. Just a few thoughts.

You may very well be right, it has crossed my mind that the reason I prefer photos I've taken "somewhere else" could be because I'm blind to my everyday surroundings. I guess it leads to the thought "if I am bored with this, why should anyone else find it interesting", even though it may not be boring, but rather something you're just used to seeing.

Hey Kenny,

I had a quick look through your website and it seems as if you already have a good visual narrative foundation.

If you'd like to expand a bit on knowledge, reading from others who do work you appreciate is always a good step forward.

This particular book by David DuChemin was very helpful before I started focusing seriously on how I could construct a body of work, and his e-books were useful during a couple of international trips (I occasionally go back and skim them, they're great reads).

Lastly, working with other photographers, a mentor, or going to portfolio reviews (appropriate ones) will always bring you fresh insight from a perspective that only someone else's eyes can bring.

Edit: In regards to the term, I echo other's feeling towards it. It's not really useful in explaining anything. You're photographing somewhere new, and you will use the voice that speaks to you at the time. Whether new or based on the old, it's up to each individual photographer.

Good luck, and keep on shooting!

Thank you! I appreciate your kind words! Building a body of work is interesting and seems very tricky, almost to the extent where it becomes a prison impossible to break out of. I struggle a lot with what to upload and not upload (as a hobbyist really all I do is upload online for viewing). All I've concluded so far is that I upload too much. 🙂

You're looking at it backwards. You're looking for a 'killer subject' that will magically make your photos 'good'. There is no such subject. Great photographers all have one thing in common, and it doesn't matter what things they photograph, what culture they come from, how old or educated or wealthy they are. What they have in common is that they photograph things that truly, deeply interest them, that they want to tell the world about.

Photographers who fail are not passionate about anything except, perhaps, gear. Look inside yourself, and fill that emptiness in there, and you'll be on the path to greatness.

I think I see your point, but I am not looking for a magic bullet here. I didn't mean to formulate the question in a way where it seems I am looking for "that correct answer". It was more a reflection on the fact that I really enjoy photographing while traveling, but also showing the environment I live in myself every day. So for a photo to be considered travel photography, is it enough that it was taken while traveling? For example, a lot of times there is not much difference at all between travel photos and street photos, yet they are considered as different genres..

Perhaps the problem is only that I have chosen to think about this, when in fact I should just ignore the genre labels?

Yet, some people seem to really get their knickers in a twist when someone does a "street portrait" and calls it "street photography" because they are breaking the "rules". To be completely honest, I really love looking at "street photos", but I am not far away from despising every single discussion on the subject.

I tried to describe once to a friend what kind of things I enjoy taking photos of. Now my goal was not to try to sound professional, rather the opposite as I understand my limitations as a photographer.

But there is still the urge of labeling it.. So I thought to myself "well I can't say I enjoy street photography because I am not 'behaving' as is often described for that".. I ended up saying something along the lines of "erhm, I kind of enjoy a more documentary style, I mean, I like to show things, environments, situations". My friend chuckled lightly at the fact that I basically claimed myself to be a documentary photographer in his ears, and I thought to myself "wow that might have been the most pretentious thing I've ever said".

I guess I struggle a lot with labels, but anyway it has led me to this thought that something with the label "travel photography" seems close to the mark, yet what does it mean?

 

[furbs]

You're looking at it backwards. You're looking for a 'killer subject' that will magically make your photos 'good'. There is no such subject. Great photographers all have one thing in common, and it doesn't matter what things they photograph, what culture they come from, how old or educated or wealthy they are. What they have in common is that they photograph things that truly, deeply interest them, that they want to tell the world about.

Photographers who fail are not passionate about anything except, perhaps, gear. Look inside yourself, and fill that emptiness in there, and you'll be on the path to greatness.

This is great advice. I looked through your photos, Kenny, and some of them are very good. If you want to make them more worthwhile to others, you might want to think less of subject matter, as Chris suggests. Your heart will draw you naturally to the right subject matter, but your head will help you find the compositions that speak that wordless language to others.

 

[kxl]

I think you may be overthinking this a bit.

Like you, I am a hobbyist. Travel photography is part of what I do, which I define as photography when I travel (mind-blowing isn't it?) The actual genre may be different, depending on my destination. For example, for me, a trip to Egypt meant street photography, as well as architecture; a trip to Costa Rica meant street and macro photography, while a trip to the Canadian Rockies meant landscape photography.

However, I obviously do not travel 12 months out of every year, so for thsoe times when I am not traveling, I shoot whatever I feel like -- Chinatown or a mission or a ghost town or an airplane museum or a botanical garden -- again, I am a hobbyist so this is for me.

So really, just shoot whatever. The important thing is to keep shooting.

 

[Jamie123]

Just aim your camera at what you want to take pictures of. As others have said, don't waste your time thinking about genres, especially since you say you have no interest in commercial photography (which is the only area where genre thinking makes some sense as there you have to figure out what you do and what clients you want to work for).

Also, as Roger has said, practice is the only way to get better. You won't take better photos on your travels by reading how to do good travel photography. If you think too much about what will make a good picture you'll just end up making pictures that look like other pictures. Try to find out what you want to take pictures of and then try to make them to the best of your abilities.

 

[kennylovrin]

This is great advice. I looked through your photos, Kenny, and some of them are very good. If you want to make them more worthwhile to others, you might want to think less of subject matter, as Chris suggests. Your heart will draw you naturally to the right subject matter, but your head will help you find the compositions that speak that wordless language to others.

Thank you, that's very nice of you!

Re-reading Chris' comment I realize I may have gone a bit overly defensive in my reply there. 🙂 And really, all I want is to photograph things that I like and want to share with other people.

At the same time though I want to try to actively produce something that does in fact interest other people, and I really struggle with figuring out that. I often sit and look at my Flickr feed for example and I think to myself "why is it that other people always seem to like the shots that I myself never would imagine others would like". I just don't get it, what is it I am missing there, do I just find stuff interesting that the general public find boring? Sometimes I also do as myself if there is a different in where you show your work, I mean that people prefer different things depending on where it is shown because the website/location draws a certain type of people. For example, it does seem as if Flickr is mainly patting each other on the back and favoriting the odd bokeh shot.. But now I'm just sounding bitter. 🙂

I think though that putting together what I think is my best shots, and have someone external without any personal connections to me look it through and just have at it with critique might be the most efficient way of progressing?

 

[kennylovrin]

I think you may be overthinking this a bit.

Like you, I am a hobbyist. Travel photography is part of what I do, which I define as photography when I travel (mind-blowing isn't it?) The actual genre may be different, depending on my destination. For example, for me, a trip to Egypt meant street photography, as well as architecture; a trip to Costa Rica meant street and macro photography, while a trip to the Canadian Rockies meant landscape photography.

However, I obviously do not travel 12 months out of every year, so for thsoe times when I am not traveling, I shoot whatever I feel like -- Chinatown or a mission or a ghost town or an airplane museum or a botanical garden -- again, I am a hobbyist so this is for me.

So really, just shoot whatever. The important thing is to keep shooting.

I probably am overthinking it.. It's a common problem for me when it comes to self reflection. 🙂 In my professional life I have no trouble (or so I like to think) to look at things more subjectively, but when it comes to my own hobbies and values it gets much trickier..

And like you describe, in fact I think I behave the same way, I just shoot what is interesting in the place I am at the moment.

But let's say I were to put together an exhibition, or do a little book (for fun, I don't mean to make it sound professional in anyway) how would I then go about trying to find a coherence.. When I look at my shots all I see is a street shot there, a landscape here, something else there, bla bla bla.. It's so hard looking at a group of photos and try to make sense of it for other people to look at.

 

[ferider]

What's your "final" product ?

I photograph when traveling, because (1) it's fun, (2) for my family and friends, and (3) to remember how something felt when I photographed it. I don't aspire to be one of the "Great Photographers", who - as Chris wrote - only photograph what "truly, deeply interest them, that they want to tell the world about". I just want to share, say, like telling a story at a party. That doesn't mean that I shouldn't pass a certain "quality threshold". The ultimate quality criterion for me is if I can print and put on the wall or keep in an album. Which really helps when scouting a location before traveling, and planning what I will shoot.

- Do you want to sell prints ?
- Are you printing for yourself, family and friends ?
- Do you care more about your online presence ?
- Do you shoot only for yourself ?
- Etc.

All OK and valid, but what you answer should very much have an impact on how and what you photograph, also when traveling.

Roland.

 

[kxl]

But let's say I were to put together an exhibition, or do a little book (for fun, I don't mean to make it sound professional in anyway) how would I then go about trying to find a coherence..

I get what you are saying -- you don't want that sense of randomness. IMHO, there are two ways to address that:

1) Thematic

Document people, their lives and their surroundings; e.g., 1930's (USA) FSA photographers documenting hardship or the photos of Hiroshi Hamaya, which document the rural coast of the Sea of Japan, where he became interested in documenting the traditional customs of its people and the austere environment of the region.

2) Premise / Tell a Story

This is story-telling with photos (with or without words)


My advise: 1) go and shoot then 2) ask yourself if a theme is emerging or if there is a story to tell, then 3) Tell the story.

If no story comes of it, so what? IMHO, any time spent on your hobby is time well-spent.

 

[hausen]

I think the key for me is to have fun. I shoot most Saturday mornings and I make a trip out of it. I look through Google maps, Google Earth and a couple of Sun positioning apps on a Thursday and Friday night and research things I can go and shoot. I then look at images in google that others have taken to get an idea of the lay of the land. Normally these destinations are within 100kms of home. Then choose the medium and camera and then load my bike (Triumph Rocket III) and then off I go. Most times it works and I actually get more than I expected and I really have seen so much more of my local area than I ever would have.
Once I feel I have covered everything within 100kms then I will just go out to 150kms. NZ is an Island so my passion for LE b&w shots are easily realised with the proximity to moving water. So I try to make it a travel photography every time I leave the house.

 

[shaweetz]

I get what you are saying -- you don't want that sense of randomness. IMHO, there are two ways to address that:

1) Thematic

Document people, their lives and their surroundings; e.g., 1930's (USA) FSA photographers documenting hardship or the photos of Hiroshi Hamaya, which document the rural coast of the Sea of Japan, where he became interested in documenting the traditional customs of its people and the austere environment of the region.

2) Premise / Tell a Story

This is story-telling with photos (with or without words)


My advise: 1) go and shoot then 2) ask yourself if a theme is emerging or if there is a story to tell, then 3) Tell the story.

If no story comes of it, so what? IMHO, any time spent on your hobby is time well-spent.

It may be relevant or not, but for #2 I have spent a good deal of time in the last few years perusing people's attempts to document their motorcycle trips at advrider.com. These trips can range from a few days to years long, and the balance and quality of photography and writing differs with every contributor. The ones that filter to the top are inevitably the strongest and most compelling photogs and storytellers.

For example, http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=480532.

After attempting a few of my own, I've come to appreciate that this online 'ride report' style could be considered a genre all on its own. In this case you are provided with some useful constraints that lend a coherence to the project before you even begin.

I have tried, with limited success, to translate these reports to a book form, and it quickly becomes evident that they are a different thing entirely. Further, an image that has a great deal of impact in a text narrative can make little sense when it is stripped of that context.

I am casting about for a response here much like you were casting around for a question in your initial post. Today more than ever you have a lot of options for enjoying your images after they are taken, and that is a lot of the enjoyment, figuring that out.

I think the ability to deliver a riveting slideshow in a room with a dusty, burning-smell slide projector is pretty much a dead artform though, and that is sad 🙁

 

[Roger Hicks]

. . . The ones that filter to the top are inevitably the strongest and most compelling photogs and storytellers.

. . . I think the ability to deliver a riveting slideshow in a room with a dusty, burning-smell slide projector is pretty much a dead artform though, and that is sad 🙁

Para 1: Well, yes. We all love to hear/see stories. The school-essay format "What I did on my holidays" (vacations for American-speakers) accompanied by snapshots is usually pretty dull.

"For American-speakers" can be important too. You need a "voice" and "vision" that are personal , but not too culturally specific/parochial. Err on the side of cultural specificity if necessary, though: blandness is to be avoided at all cost. My "Travel Photography" (Focal Press 1998) appears to be available now only second hand (cf http://www.abebooks.com/Travel-Photography-Hicks-Roger-Schultz-Frances/8890477474/bd ) and obviously it's well outdated. But then, no-one wants to pay for anything any more.

Para 2: Sad? Why? There are still electronic projectors... I'll be giving a talk to the Leica Society in the UK next year and a lot of it will be about travel.

Cheers,

R.

 

[charjohncarter]

I'm with Roger, practice, practice. For me the hard part is the equipment issue. I generally travel with my wife, and she is understanding about stopping and waiting for the 'decisive moment.' Then how many cameras and film will I take. I going to Mexico in less that a month, almost by myself, so I thinking Nikonos, Balda 66e, Olympus 35RC, and maybe one more. That is really taking a lot, but I've taken 3 SLRs on different trips so I'll make it. Then there is the issue of quality, you always have to try for composition, tonal beauty, and to shoot in the right lighting.

If travel photography isn't a genre,who cares.