Tim Gray
Well-known
That's crappy luck. Hope it has a happy resolution. It sucks putting money into something nice only to have it break. The two used M's I bought have been fine - I've been lucky.
That being said, one I bought had a return policy (popflash) so if I had the kind of problems you had with your used M6, it would have gone back and I would have just bought a different camera. And the one M2, you sent it off and it came back out of alignment and with a torn shutter? If so, hard to blame the camera there - sounds like the repair person (or shipping?).
That being said, one I bought had a return policy (popflash) so if I had the kind of problems you had with your used M6, it would have gone back and I would have just bought a different camera. And the one M2, you sent it off and it came back out of alignment and with a torn shutter? If so, hard to blame the camera there - sounds like the repair person (or shipping?).
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N
Nikon Bob
Guest
Nothing like comparing a sniping rifle that has been tuned/blue printed with a telescopic sight to a bog standard open sighted issue infantry rifle. That is to say nothing of the intense training a sniper receives compared to the average grunt/pongo. Each has reliability and quality enough for it's intended end usage.
Bob
parsec1
parsec1
One person shooting at you..maybe. A whole regiment absolutley not.
Individualy the AK47 (auto Kalashnikov model design 1947) is reckoned to have killed more individuals than both A bombs dropped on Japan and be more reliable than any other mass produced weapon ever made.They are not made for duelling. In close quarter combat for which they were designed accuracy over more than 15 feet is immaterial.
coelacanth
Ride, dive, shoot.
Can we slide back to camera discussion? I do agree the similarity of camera and firearms when you think about functionality and accuracy, but I don't feel too comfortable reading how well designed AK47 is for its purpose and comparing it with number of dead body it created against atomic bombs here.
parsec1
parsec1
Fair comment.
Benjamin Marks
Veteran
Leica repairs: CL: broken film take-up spool (30 years); M2 shutter curtain replacement (50 years); M6 metering circuit board replacement (20 years); M7 DX coding repair (upon receipt) R4s - magnetic switch replacement (20 years).
But most mechanical devices will eventually need attention,
Nikon F4s - shutter replacement (20 years). Rolleiflex 2.3 E jammed, 300mm convertible Symmar-S pneumatic cylinder replacement; Pentax LX rewind crank spontaneous disappearance . . the list goes on.
But most mechanical devices will eventually need attention,
Nikon F4s - shutter replacement (20 years). Rolleiflex 2.3 E jammed, 300mm convertible Symmar-S pneumatic cylinder replacement; Pentax LX rewind crank spontaneous disappearance . . the list goes on.
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Leica All Day
Veteran
Hey Nate.....I have had bad "Leica luck" too....it always fels like a gamble every time I have to send them back to the states for repairs (and quite costly)....send me an email and let me what's up before you come out here.....first beer is on me......
apologies in advance for bringing up the sensitive topic of guns around here.....but this was shot with a Leica m6ttl and a 28mm elmarit
me in Dara Adam Khel.....N.W.F.P.....Pakistan......
cheers, michael
apologies in advance for bringing up the sensitive topic of guns around here.....but this was shot with a Leica m6ttl and a 28mm elmarit
me in Dara Adam Khel.....N.W.F.P.....Pakistan......
cheers, michael
Mephiloco
Well-known
Any special reason for coming to my neck of the woods this weekend, or just getting out of dodge for a few days?
johnnygulliver
Established
I had a SIG AMT, in 7.62, now that WAS quality, reliability and accuracy personified - until my Government banned it...
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Steve_F
Well-known
Its All About Character:
I have recently replied to other threads expressing my disappointment / suprise that my M6 TTL went back for rf alignment and sticking framelines. It is my first Leica and I've had it approx 11 months. My comparison was the Nikon's I've been using for 14 years. Only one prob with a counter in the F5 viewfinder.
I have now accepted that this is character and these things can happen. The Japanese have an enviable reputation for reliability whether it be cars, bikes, cameras etc.
As was pointed out about riding an old Duc 916 (man I feel old - I remember when they were launched to serious acclaim) it's got character. As I said earlier I'm thinking ketting back into my biking. I'm not Eddie Lawson, Yvon DuHamel, Kork Ballington etc so I don't a big Lime Green Kawasaki anymore, I want something different.
I couldn't part with my Leica now as it just feels great in my hands. I've not put a roll of film through my FM3A since, sure I've picked it up and fired it.
Could I part with it - doubt it.
If went on one of those 'do I need a second body trips' I wouldn't hesitate to take the Nikon for a back-up.
Steve.
I have recently replied to other threads expressing my disappointment / suprise that my M6 TTL went back for rf alignment and sticking framelines. It is my first Leica and I've had it approx 11 months. My comparison was the Nikon's I've been using for 14 years. Only one prob with a counter in the F5 viewfinder.
I have now accepted that this is character and these things can happen. The Japanese have an enviable reputation for reliability whether it be cars, bikes, cameras etc.
As was pointed out about riding an old Duc 916 (man I feel old - I remember when they were launched to serious acclaim) it's got character. As I said earlier I'm thinking ketting back into my biking. I'm not Eddie Lawson, Yvon DuHamel, Kork Ballington etc so I don't a big Lime Green Kawasaki anymore, I want something different.
I couldn't part with my Leica now as it just feels great in my hands. I've not put a roll of film through my FM3A since, sure I've picked it up and fired it.
Could I part with it - doubt it.
If went on one of those 'do I need a second body trips' I wouldn't hesitate to take the Nikon for a back-up.
Steve.
Fujitsu
Well-known
Maybe you´re right. Used Leicas gave me some trouble too. Here´s a list of my Leica Ms (bought everything used) in chronological order:
M6 - Rangefinder out of alignment
M6 TTL - base door bent
M7 - worked fine, except for the DX reader issue (tough to get the roll of film out the camera)
M6 "Wetzlar" - meter failure (needed two rides to Solms to get it fixed), infamous "zinc corrosion"
MP - perfect!
M8 - strange blackouts, weird self-burst shootings, failure to read / write certain SD cards
M6 "Wetzlar" - meter failure
Im Leica-less currently. Would I get an M again? Sure, why not. Finding one thats working perfectly is sort of a hobby too...
Mister E
Well-known
If were talking about firearms the M14 is what a Leica should be. It is a superb firearm in all aspects. I love my AK-M, but I would have to say not much feels better than a Russian Kalishnikov with the original forged receiver. It certainly achieved what I wish my Leicas had. The copies made over the next many years fell way short. Are another superb firearm that has both.
Paul Luscher
Well-known
Absolutely shocking, shocking that anyone could consider a Leica as being anything other than as reliable as a Swiss watch! Although I HAVE had my problems with Leicas--a complete shutter failure in one, and meter indicator malfunction in another (MP, by the way)
Meanwhile, my ZI--a camera once loudly derided by the Leica faithful as being a tinny piece of garbage--keeps on firing away without a problem (knock on wood)...
And no, I'm not trying to reopen THAT battle again....
Meanwhile, my ZI--a camera once loudly derided by the Leica faithful as being a tinny piece of garbage--keeps on firing away without a problem (knock on wood)...
And no, I'm not trying to reopen THAT battle again....
johnnygulliver
Established
well said, and those new Eddie Lawson reps look great ....;-)
Roger Hicks
Veteran
One of my publishers had a major engine failure with a new Rolls Royce. A good friend had the petrol tank of his Maserati rust through after a few years -- quite apart from the fact that the car was resprayed 3 times under guarantee when it was new.
Nothing made by man is perfect.
It's just that by the standards of luxury goods, Leicas are quite cheap and long lived, so a lot of people get to see their defects -- especially at second-hand, fifth-hand, tenth-had...
Did ANYONE really refer to the ZI as 'a tinny piece of garbage'? Who?
Cheers,
R.
Nothing made by man is perfect.
It's just that by the standards of luxury goods, Leicas are quite cheap and long lived, so a lot of people get to see their defects -- especially at second-hand, fifth-hand, tenth-had...
Did ANYONE really refer to the ZI as 'a tinny piece of garbage'? Who?
Cheers,
R.
SonC
Established
Visiting my son and getting some good food, I hope, Maybe take a picture or two
johnnygulliver
Established
more analogies
more analogies
this whole thread brings to mind Etorre Bugatti's masterpieces, whose cars were acclaimed the pinnacle of art and engineering, and fantastically fast and unbeatable racers in their time too. But unreliable, unless looked after expertly: Bugatti once told a complaining customer that he shouldn't own a Bugatti unless he had a heated garage to keep it in...
more analogies
this whole thread brings to mind Etorre Bugatti's masterpieces, whose cars were acclaimed the pinnacle of art and engineering, and fantastically fast and unbeatable racers in their time too. But unreliable, unless looked after expertly: Bugatti once told a complaining customer that he shouldn't own a Bugatti unless he had a heated garage to keep it in...
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Paul Luscher
Well-known
Well, to be perfectly honest, most of the ZI trashing did not occur on THIS site. But on Photo.net, I recollect some really harsh comments made about the ZI, around the time it came out, by some of the fanatically "'Leicatreu."
No, I agree--nothing man-made is perfect. And yes, I do have high regard for my Leicas. But I guess I was thinking of those who (and I don't think I see them here) take the Cult of Leica a little too seriously.
I will say no more...
No, I agree--nothing man-made is perfect. And yes, I do have high regard for my Leicas. But I guess I was thinking of those who (and I don't think I see them here) take the Cult of Leica a little too seriously.
I will say no more...
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Stick around. There are one or two. There are also those who scream 'Fanboy!' and kindred insults at anyone who points out that actually, despite their not being perfect, Leicas are pretty good cameras.
My favourite ZI review was in the British Journal of Photography, where they pointed out that if Voigländers, ZIs and Leicas were all made in the same factory, their finish, feel and features would mean that they would still occupy roughly the same price points.
If you're interested in this late date at a review of the ZI shortly after it came out, you might care to look at http://www.rogerandfrances.com/subscription/zeiss.html
Cheers,
R.
Paul Luscher
Well-known
Roger, I agree. It goes both ways. Maybe it's like that comment I once heard about music: "There are only two kinds of music: good music and bad music."
Guess it's that way with cameras, regardless of brand. Some camera are good and some are bad--and price is not necessarily the determinative factor. For instance (and admitting to apostasy), one of my favorite cameras is the Olympus OM-2, which is a relatively cheap camera (these days)--and kind of an underdog brand.
BTW, it was your review of the ZI in Shutterbug (I believe) which was one of the factors which pushed me into buying the ZI....
Guess it's that way with cameras, regardless of brand. Some camera are good and some are bad--and price is not necessarily the determinative factor. For instance (and admitting to apostasy), one of my favorite cameras is the Olympus OM-2, which is a relatively cheap camera (these days)--and kind of an underdog brand.
BTW, it was your review of the ZI in Shutterbug (I believe) which was one of the factors which pushed me into buying the ZI....