BillP
Rangefinder General
Maybe "code of conduct" is a better term than rules. I would hope that we can agree on:
1. Our objectives
2. Our aims
3. Our "core message"
I very much like the idea of acting as advocates, or educators as to the value of photography. That makes this whole idea more proactive, more outward facing. Instead of just standing there digging your heels in saying "I AM WITHIN MY RIGHTS" over and over again, if we treat every interaction, curious or hostile, as an opportunity to get a clear and cogent message across, we will be doing something constructive. Yes, I know that won't always work, or be appropriate; trying to explain that photography is art to a chap who is about to punch me is not necessarily the best way forward, but every person enlightened is one less to complain.
In fact, this gives me an idea. Bear with me for a short while. My day job is selling consultancy; to do that I have to be able to articulate a "core message" and then articulate it to various parties "stakeholders" - I have a proven model for doing this. I'm going to play around with this for a couple of days, then post the results.
And please - can we forget patriotism, nationalism and politics in this - they distort the issue un-necessarily.
Regards.
Bill
1. Our objectives
2. Our aims
3. Our "core message"
I very much like the idea of acting as advocates, or educators as to the value of photography. That makes this whole idea more proactive, more outward facing. Instead of just standing there digging your heels in saying "I AM WITHIN MY RIGHTS" over and over again, if we treat every interaction, curious or hostile, as an opportunity to get a clear and cogent message across, we will be doing something constructive. Yes, I know that won't always work, or be appropriate; trying to explain that photography is art to a chap who is about to punch me is not necessarily the best way forward, but every person enlightened is one less to complain.
In fact, this gives me an idea. Bear with me for a short while. My day job is selling consultancy; to do that I have to be able to articulate a "core message" and then articulate it to various parties "stakeholders" - I have a proven model for doing this. I'm going to play around with this for a couple of days, then post the results.
And please - can we forget patriotism, nationalism and politics in this - they distort the issue un-necessarily.
Regards.
Bill
Al Patterson
Ferroequinologist
In order to leave out patriotism, nationalism and politics, we do need someone withe the talents of your day job. I'm the probably the last person here who should be drafting "mission statements" about our "core message". But, it is probably the most important part of any project of this nature.
I'm sure it will be worth the wait.
bmattock
Veteran
"Quid Me Vexari?"
Al Patterson
Ferroequinologist
You may have missed my point of something being worth the wait. You are correet in the length of time it might take to actually correct the problem, but I'm referring to waiting to see what Bill comes up with regarding this issue, which will be a shorter wait.
And, I do have the Krage's "Photographer's Right" printed and in my camera bag, but I'm not sure showing it to a clueless member of the public or a rent-a-cop will help matters much. One would have to choose carefully whom to show the flyer to, as it may actually get you in deeper trouble with some people.
bmattock
Veteran
Gezundheit.
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
Excellent. Just excellent.
I also have photos of gendarmes, a politician, and a few army soldiers when I was at the Vrai Terre des Libres.
Bela Georgozy (aka Sarkozy) wants to change the "Libres" part, of course.
tripod
Well-known
I'm happy to see that this idea is moving forward in a much better direction than I first proposed. Thank you for inputs and improvements!
danwilly
Established
Sounds a little to anal for me. I think a good photographer should have a little anarchist inside of him or her. You tell them Roger.
dan
dan
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear Richard,I don't think that any "rules" would be necessary Roger.
The "association" would have a list of aims and objectives, one of the most important (for me) would be the education of the general public as to the "art" and "documentary" value of street photography, and it's validity as a lawful activity.
If your "Mrs Mc Do" was aware of the fact that you were an artist or a fan of architecture, then she may not have felt threatened and called the police.
I fully realise this would be a long term work.
It's not as simple as carrying a "card" of any kind.
I'm no youngster, but I would like to be able to continue photography in public places for some time to come.
Edit: It's not the death of film that will stop us, but rather the illegality of camera ownership..
I'm sure you're right in all of the above; it was your reference to 'rules of the association' in post 49 that confused me.
We are of one mind on the aims.
Cheers,
R.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear Richard,
A lot lies in the delivery. Delivered with a smile, and a faint air of disbelief, this need not come across as 'snotty'. The policewoman was not offended, not least because I hastened to clarify that this was not an attack on her, but on McDo. She was very soon on my side -- if she wasn't to begin with.
And I will not call a policeman 'sir'. That's his job, when addressing me.
(Or of course, 'madam', etc.)
Cheers,
R.
BillP
Rangefinder General
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear Richard,
As you say, it would be much easier to thrash everything out (and I am sure more pleasant) if we could all meet in a bar somewhere, preferably in Euskal Herria -- though I have to confess that I prefer the Spanish side of the 'border' because the endless deep-red shutters on the French side become rather repetitive after a while.
As long as we don't have to speak Basque, which is one of the most opaque languages I have ever encountered (up there with Maltese, Tibetan and Hungarian).
Cheers,
R.
As you say, it would be much easier to thrash everything out (and I am sure more pleasant) if we could all meet in a bar somewhere, preferably in Euskal Herria -- though I have to confess that I prefer the Spanish side of the 'border' because the endless deep-red shutters on the French side become rather repetitive after a while.
As long as we don't have to speak Basque, which is one of the most opaque languages I have ever encountered (up there with Maltese, Tibetan and Hungarian).
Cheers,
R.
R
RML
Guest
I like my country but to call me patriotic is one step too far. No country deserves my everlasting allegiance or sacrifice. And, it's one thing to be patriotic in your country, yet another in somebody else's country, which is where I care to spend much of my time.
While I do think photographers are unduly harassed and limited in many places, I'd rather stay out of an organised "protest" group. Can't take photos from behind bars.
While I do think photographers are unduly harassed and limited in many places, I'd rather stay out of an organised "protest" group. Can't take photos from behind bars.
bmattock
Veteran
Is glorious photographer-workers revolution, comrade!
We will have re-education camps, teach basics of aperture, shutter speed, focus, freedom to photograph glorious leader!
If this not work, many photo ops in glorious Siberia, worker's paradise!
BillP
Rangefinder General
Right.
*clears throat*
Here we go.
This is a "Communications Wheel". I normally use it to define what the core message is in a sales campaign, and who the stakeholder areas and individuals are. The Wheel can have any number of "segments" - this particular one has worked out to six, in my mind.
How to read it:
The "core message" is, unsurprisingly, at the centre. This is the common, simple message that we want to present to the world. It should be clear, unambiguous, and easy to remember. Too many threads in the core message dilutes its' impact. Too much complexity makes it "opaque".
Each segment is a "stakeholder area". In a sales campaign I would include in this area the name of the director, company officer, etc. responsible for that area.
The bullet points in red are the "drivers" - the key attributes for that stakeholder - what they want, what motivates them.
The bullet points in green are the "filters" - the words and behaviours that we should use with that stakeholder to tailor the core message to meet their drivers, and to neutralise and satisfy them.
A stakeholder may of course fall into more than one segment, depending on their behaviours. You may therefore encounter a "curious" or "aggressive" police officer or bar owner. Their primary stakeholder behaviour and our response to it is "modified" by their secondary stakeholder behaviour.
I am NOT putting this up as a finished product, or as the last word. This is a straw man - a means to an end. This should provoke further throught and discussion.
Thoughts?
Regards,
Bill
*clears throat*
Here we go.
This is a "Communications Wheel". I normally use it to define what the core message is in a sales campaign, and who the stakeholder areas and individuals are. The Wheel can have any number of "segments" - this particular one has worked out to six, in my mind.
How to read it:
The "core message" is, unsurprisingly, at the centre. This is the common, simple message that we want to present to the world. It should be clear, unambiguous, and easy to remember. Too many threads in the core message dilutes its' impact. Too much complexity makes it "opaque".
Each segment is a "stakeholder area". In a sales campaign I would include in this area the name of the director, company officer, etc. responsible for that area.
The bullet points in red are the "drivers" - the key attributes for that stakeholder - what they want, what motivates them.
The bullet points in green are the "filters" - the words and behaviours that we should use with that stakeholder to tailor the core message to meet their drivers, and to neutralise and satisfy them.
A stakeholder may of course fall into more than one segment, depending on their behaviours. You may therefore encounter a "curious" or "aggressive" police officer or bar owner. Their primary stakeholder behaviour and our response to it is "modified" by their secondary stakeholder behaviour.
I am NOT putting this up as a finished product, or as the last word. This is a straw man - a means to an end. This should provoke further throught and discussion.
Thoughts?
Regards,
Bill
bmattock
Veteran
That's awesome, Bill. Very cool.
And I say that as a man who has sat through way too many "death by powerpoint" presentations that made NO sense at all. This is very clear. Very very clear. Neat!
And I say that as a man who has sat through way too many "death by powerpoint" presentations that made NO sense at all. This is very clear. Very very clear. Neat!
MickH
Well-known
Bill, that's a very interesting Comms Wheel and makes alot of sense. In fact, and I don't mean this in a derogatory manner, it elegantly "states the bleedin' obvious" which is no mean feat. I would like to add an additional green bullet point above "Be Courteous", remembering that, as much as anything, this is a PR exercise. That addition is:
Cheers,
Mick
- Smile
Cheers,
Mick
sjw617
Panoramist
Richard, I thought you said you must have permission to publish. I guess you do have the permission of the 3 Gemdarmes to publish their pictures?
Steve
MickH
Well-known
I heard this on the BBC today:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/main...radio/aod/radio4_aod.shtml?radio4/lawinaction
There's only a couple of minutes out of a 30 min programme that is specifically related to photography (you will need to skip to 00:25:00 ish) but what it says about the freedom NOT TO HAVE YOUR PHOTO TAKEN - while mostly related to celebs being snapped IN A PUBLIC PLACE but outside of detox clinics etc. I find disturbing. Privacy laws & all that.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/main...radio/aod/radio4_aod.shtml?radio4/lawinaction
There's only a couple of minutes out of a 30 min programme that is specifically related to photography (you will need to skip to 00:25:00 ish) but what it says about the freedom NOT TO HAVE YOUR PHOTO TAKEN - while mostly related to celebs being snapped IN A PUBLIC PLACE but outside of detox clinics etc. I find disturbing. Privacy laws & all that.
bcostin
Well-known
I love that diagram, Bill. It sums up the personal interactions very nicely.
(FWIW, I also like the original "patriotic" part. I'm an unabashed patriot and apparently lack the dignity to even be properly ashamed of myself. I guess I've always been a bit of an iconoclast. )
(FWIW, I also like the original "patriotic" part. I'm an unabashed patriot and apparently lack the dignity to even be properly ashamed of myself. I guess I've always been a bit of an iconoclast.
)