Int'l Asc. of Patriotic Street Photographers

[BillP]

Maybe "code of conduct" is a better term than rules. I would hope that we can agree on:

1. Our objectives
2. Our aims
3. Our "core message"

I very much like the idea of acting as advocates, or educators as to the value of photography. That makes this whole idea more proactive, more outward facing. Instead of just standing there digging your heels in saying "I AM WITHIN MY RIGHTS" over and over again, if we treat every interaction, curious or hostile, as an opportunity to get a clear and cogent message across, we will be doing something constructive. Yes, I know that won't always work, or be appropriate; trying to explain that photography is art to a chap who is about to punch me is not necessarily the best way forward, but every person enlightened is one less to complain.

In fact, this gives me an idea. Bear with me for a short while. My day job is selling consultancy; to do that I have to be able to articulate a "core message" and then articulate it to various parties "stakeholders" - I have a proven model for doing this. I'm going to play around with this for a couple of days, then post the results.

And please - can we forget patriotism, nationalism and politics in this - they distort the issue un-necessarily.

Regards.

Bill

 

[Al Patterson]

Maybe "code of conduct" is a better term than rules. I would hope that we can agree on:

1. Our objectives
2. Our aims
3. Our "core message"

I very much like the idea of acting as advocates, or educators as to the value of photography. That makes this whole idea more proactive, more outward facing. Instead of just standing there digging your heels in saying "I AM WITHIN MY RIGHTS" over and over again, if we treat every interaction, curious or hostile, as an opportunity to get a clear and cogent message across, we will be doing something constructive. Yes, I know that won't always work, or be appropriate; trying to explain that photography is art to a chap who is about to punch me is not necessarily the best way forward, but every person enlightened is one less to complain.

In fact, this gives me an idea. Bear with me for a short while. My day job is selling consultancy; to do that I have to be able to articulate a "core message" and then articulate it to various parties "stakeholders" - I have a proven model for doing this. I'm going to play around with this for a couple of days, then post the results.

And please - can we forget patriotism, nationalism and politics in this - they distort the issue un-necessarily.

Regards.

Bill

In order to leave out patriotism, nationalism and politics, we do need someone withe the talents of your day job. I'm the probably the last person here who should be drafting "mission statements" about our "core message". But, it is probably the most important part of any project of this nature.

I'm sure it will be worth the wait.

 

[bmattock]

"Honni soit qui mal y pense"

Very fitting.

"Quid Me Vexari?"

 

[Al Patterson]

Sure it will Al.
For us, our kids and our grandchildren etc (no, really.)

And a code of conduct as Bill suggests is a good idea.
A code of conduct for taking pictures, ie, not "in your face", but also a code of conduct when dealing with a law officer or angry Joe Public.
It will do us no good at all to act snotty like, "Tough! This is a public place!" (sorry Roger).

A civil approach such as; "I'm sorry sir, there seems to be some misunderstanding, let me explain". At this point you pull a flyer out of your bag to show him.
Now, this flyer is important, it should not be a list of your rights, but an explanation of what street photography is about, art, documentary etc, with some URLs to some quality sites such as HCBs for example. "Education".
(This flyer will need a lot of work to get it right. Maybe Bill's "core message").

You may have missed my point of something being worth the wait. You are correet in the length of time it might take to actually correct the problem, but I'm referring to waiting to see what Bill comes up with regarding this issue, which will be a shorter wait.

And, I do have the Krage's "Photographer's Right" printed and in my camera bag, but I'm not sure showing it to a clueless member of the public or a rent-a-cop will help matters much. One would have to choose carefully whom to show the flyer to, as it may actually get you in deeper trouble with some people.

 

[bmattock]

Noiz nahi, nik ez dit fixu.

Gezundheit.

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

Thanks for your input Bill, after all this is your problem not mine. I can photograph who I want, when I want.
View attachment 57536View attachment 57537

Excellent. Just excellent.

I also have photos of gendarmes, a politician, and a few army soldiers when I was at the Vrai Terre des Libres.

Bela Georgozy (aka Sarkozy) wants to change the "Libres" part, of course.

 

[tripod]

I'm happy to see that this idea is moving forward in a much better direction than I first proposed. Thank you for inputs and improvements!

 

[danwilly]

Sounds a little to anal for me. I think a good photographer should have a little anarchist inside of him or her. You tell them Roger.
dan

 

[Roger Hicks]

I don't think that any "rules" would be necessary Roger.

The "association" would have a list of aims and objectives, one of the most important (for me) would be the education of the general public as to the "art" and "documentary" value of street photography, and it's validity as a lawful activity.

If your "Mrs Mc Do" was aware of the fact that you were an artist or a fan of architecture, then she may not have felt threatened and called the police.

I fully realise this would be a long term work.
It's not as simple as carrying a "card" of any kind.

I'm no youngster, but I would like to be able to continue photography in public places for some time to come.

Edit: It's not the death of film that will stop us, but rather the illegality of camera ownership..😱

Dear Richard,

I'm sure you're right in all of the above; it was your reference to 'rules of the association' in post 49 that confused me.

We are of one mind on the aims.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Roger Hicks]

It will do us no good at all to act snotty like, "Tough! This is a public place!" (sorry Roger).

Dear Richard,

A lot lies in the delivery. Delivered with a smile, and a faint air of disbelief, this need not come across as 'snotty'. The policewoman was not offended, not least because I hastened to clarify that this was not an attack on her, but on McDo. She was very soon on my side -- if she wasn't to begin with.

And I will not call a policeman 'sir'. That's his job, when addressing me.

(Or of course, 'madam', etc.)

Cheers,

R.

 

[BillP]

Yes,
Let's hope that BillP comes up with something good.

Working...:bang:

Regards,

Bill

 

[Roger Hicks]

Dear Richard,

As you say, it would be much easier to thrash everything out (and I am sure more pleasant) if we could all meet in a bar somewhere, preferably in Euskal Herria -- though I have to confess that I prefer the Spanish side of the 'border' because the endless deep-red shutters on the French side become rather repetitive after a while.

As long as we don't have to speak Basque, which is one of the most opaque languages I have ever encountered (up there with Maltese, Tibetan and Hungarian).

Cheers,

R.

 

[RML]

I like my country but to call me patriotic is one step too far. No country deserves my everlasting allegiance or sacrifice. And, it's one thing to be patriotic in your country, yet another in somebody else's country, which is where I care to spend much of my time.

While I do think photographers are unduly harassed and limited in many places, I'd rather stay out of an organised "protest" group. Can't take photos from behind bars.

 

[bmattock]

I would think of it more as an "awareness" group.
We're not talking revolution here.
"Give peace a chance"

Is glorious photographer-workers revolution, comrade!

We will have re-education camps, teach basics of aperture, shutter speed, focus, freedom to photograph glorious leader!

If this not work, many photo ops in glorious Siberia, worker's paradise!

 

[BillP]

Right.

*clears throat*

Here we go.

This is a "Communications Wheel". I normally use it to define what the core message is in a sales campaign, and who the stakeholder areas and individuals are. The Wheel can have any number of "segments" - this particular one has worked out to six, in my mind.

How to read it:

The "core message" is, unsurprisingly, at the centre. This is the common, simple message that we want to present to the world. It should be clear, unambiguous, and easy to remember. Too many threads in the core message dilutes its' impact. Too much complexity makes it "opaque".

Each segment is a "stakeholder area". In a sales campaign I would include in this area the name of the director, company officer, etc. responsible for that area.

The bullet points in red are the "drivers" - the key attributes for that stakeholder - what they want, what motivates them.

The bullet points in green are the "filters" - the words and behaviours that we should use with that stakeholder to tailor the core message to meet their drivers, and to neutralise and satisfy them.

A stakeholder may of course fall into more than one segment, depending on their behaviours. You may therefore encounter a "curious" or "aggressive" police officer or bar owner. Their primary stakeholder behaviour and our response to it is "modified" by their secondary stakeholder behaviour.

I am NOT putting this up as a finished product, or as the last word. This is a straw man - a means to an end. This should provoke further throught and discussion.

Thoughts?

Regards,

Bill

 

[bmattock]

That's awesome, Bill. Very cool.

And I say that as a man who has sat through way too many "death by powerpoint" presentations that made NO sense at all. This is very clear. Very very clear. Neat!

 

[MickH]

Bill, that's a very interesting Comms Wheel and makes alot of sense. In fact, and I don't mean this in a derogatory manner, it elegantly "states the bleedin' obvious" which is no mean feat. I would like to add an additional green bullet point above "Be Courteous", remembering that, as much as anything, this is a PR exercise. That addition is:

• Smile

Again, quite obvious, but difficult to remember when ruffled.

Cheers,

Mick

 

[sjw617]

Thanks for your input Bill, after all this is your problem not mine. I can photograph who I want, when I want.

Richard, I thought you said you must have permission to publish. I guess you do have the permission of the 3 Gemdarmes to publish their pictures?

Steve

 

[MickH]

I heard this on the BBC today:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/main...radio/aod/radio4_aod.shtml?radio4/lawinaction

There's only a couple of minutes out of a 30 min programme that is specifically related to photography (you will need to skip to 00:25:00 ish) but what it says about the freedom NOT TO HAVE YOUR PHOTO TAKEN - while mostly related to celebs being snapped IN A PUBLIC PLACE but outside of detox clinics etc. I find disturbing. Privacy laws & all that.

 

[bcostin]

I love that diagram, Bill. It sums up the personal interactions very nicely.

(FWIW, I also like the original "patriotic" part. I'm an unabashed patriot and apparently lack the dignity to even be properly ashamed of myself. I guess I've always been a bit of an iconoclast. 😉 )