Is Leica now officially a "hobbyist's" camera?

[VinceC]

The Leica was developed in the 1920s as a small camera for photo enthusiasts and hobbyists. Gradually, over the next 25 to 30 years, the 35mm film format gained gradual -- but not total -- acceptance from news and editorial photographers. Compared to larger formats, the Leica had poor resolution and, in some cases, too much apparent depth-of-field. However, professional photographers learned to accept these limitations because of the advantages of a miniature camera that could take adroit photos in previously private settings, coupled with the simplicity of carrying a smaller camera.

 

[Ben Z]

does a Leica shooter use the camera because some "pro" uses the same model? or does the Leica shooter love the images the camera/lens produces (as well as the feeling the camera creates w/ usage).
I vote for the latter.

Even if someone had the ability to admit "the former" to themself , I doubt they'd admit it publicly on one of these camera forums 😀 But from the way camera manufacturers use endorsements from and references to famous photographers, as well as catch-phrases like "the professionals' choice" in their ads, they must believe it does weigh in many peoples' purchase decisions 😉

 

[peter_n]

I don't think it's a hobby/pro thing. When you alter a bog standard body you automatically reduce the pool of potential buyers to those who fancy your tinkering. About the only thing I might do is change the cover to vulcanite as I think the standard bodies are fine. That's a pretty minimal change that is also practical but there would be people out there who wouldn't like it.

 

[amateriat]

What is a "pro" photographer? What is an "amateur"? These lines are not rigid. There are plenty of folks who are "pro" but do not work in news, where the speed of digital is essential. Is a fine arts photographer who makes a living from exhibitions, book publications and teaching but does not shoot weddings or news or product shots conisered a "pro"? If so, then you'll find a lot of "pro" photographres using Leica, other RF cameras including medium format, and film in general.

Could not have said it better myself.

Elliott Erwitt has flown the "amateur" flag proudly. I learned to get off my early high horse about that word from talks I had with him.

Before anyone picked up a Leica (or any 35mm camera) for "professional" work, there were amateurs using the stuff; the format was considered a "toy" by most El Serioso photogs until at least the mid-late 60s. So who was buying and using the stuff? Amateurs.

When 35mm ruled the roost in PJ circles around the world, and Tri-X was consumed by the proverbial truckload by pros known and unknown, who were Leica, Kodak, Nikon and Canon (among others) still making most of their money from? Amateurs.

I doubt this has changed much in the digital world.


- Barrett

 

[demian]

My wife has an occasional instructor and friend at the photog. school she attends here in Italy.

A World Press Photo winner by the name of Paolo Woods. A great guy and photogs. photog. Do a search.

He leaves on a minute's notice to Afghanastan and returns the following day. USes a Leica na develops his own film.

We/he also has a good friend that just loves the darkroom. He judges the negs by eye and does all of his own printing. He did a shoot and *created* almost 300 *final* prints in 3 days.

What many do not realise perhaps are that only amateurs spend time within forums, not only using film but also Leicas. We do not hear from many professionals as many do not spend time within these forums of course for heaven;s sake.

It has its place and serious practitioners continue to use the medium and cameras.

Film Leicas will always have a place and remain an option I feel, because quite simply it is nice to have options.

This is what I have seen at any rate.

 

[GeneW]

Someone once told me that Leicas are used by three groups: amateurs, pros, and dentists.

Gene

 

[nikon_junkie]

Practically all of my newspaper freelance stuff is digital. Same with weddings.

However, last year, I submitted a grab shot I took while testing a roll with a M3/50Lux and it won second place in a statewide photojournalism competition.

Just today I scratched the M3 itch again and bought into the system again along with a 50mm cron. Tommorrow I will cover a John Mccain event with it (and digital).

Living in South Carolina I will see alot of presedential candidates over the course of the next year. I shoot for a weekly so deadlines are less critical, and they could care less how it was taken.

Digital is a beast to tame. I was looking at stuff I took with my first version 50Lux and was awed by the results vs manipulating digital in PS. Couldn't find a Lux so easily (and cheaply) so went with a 50 DR 'Cron and 90mm Elmarit.

Don't think I could pull off what Ascough did with Leica, but I will use it for ready shots.

 

[x-ray]

Simon Larby on RFF and I still use M's profesionally. 39 years ago when I started shooting M's 98% were used by pros. Today 99% are used by amateurs. I use my M's for a good percentage of my documentary work but also shoot with my ZI, Hasselblad, Rollei and 4x5 cameras. For my commercial clients it's 98% digital now. Unfortunately it goes to show how Leica has failed to keep up with the demands of the pro market.

 

[Ben Z]

What many do not realise perhaps are that only amateurs spend time within forums, not only using film but also Leicas. We do not hear from many professionals as many do not spend time within these forums of course for heaven;s sake.

I think professionals are probably underrepresented on Leica forums, but you certainly don't see Leicas in use at public events the way they were in the 60's. I don't know if the M8 will change that. Would be great for Leica if it did.

 

[Pablito]

"pro means paid to shoot"
This is simplistic. The use of Leicas ranges from virtually zero in some areas of professional photography, like journalism, to significant use in other areas, as in those who survive financially from photography but may not have deadlines or clients (like fine arts photographers) or those who use them for research purposes, such as people doing grant-based documentary work or book publishing projects. Some Magnum folks still use Leicas.

I work with a very skilled photolab technician in NYC who develops my film when I have too much to do it all myself. Her thriving business is entirely based on developing b&w film and printing for "pro" photographers, most of whom shoot with Leicas. She even clamis she can recognize film shot w/ a Leica FROM THE NEGATIVES!!

Sure most Leica users are amateur, but let's recognize the instrument still has a place in the toolbox of folks who make their living in photography like x-ray and Simon Larby (cheers!) and yours truly.

 

[Xmas]

In '39 when HMS Exeter limped into Pompey jury rigged after battle damage from a bad encounter with a Ge pocket battle ship, only one of the fleet street pros (L. Vining) was using a 35mm (a ContaxII). So take up had been real slow, most of the Contax had been made, although production did not stop until the USAF burnt Dresden.
35mm was about convenience not quality, double-X had grain like gulf balls.
Leitz competed head to head with the Ja throughout 50s but lost a lot in % in 60s with the SLRs dominating sales, the pros used Nikon F with motors, the amaters also went for the SLRs, Nikon, Canon, ...
Leitz died with the M5 in mid 70s, on the third day, they did the M4-2.
Leica have not competed with the dig until now, they have only been existing. The >>% of the pros and ams are still using SLRs (dSLRs).
Leica will only have a niche market, 'competing' with Epson, they can still survive.
If I did not like dev and printing I'd buy a M8 (or Epson).
The PJs who dont need to wire (e-mail) a pic can still use film, like the guys on Exeter, they may be conservative? The PJs who plan for fast breaking Hindenberg/Lakehurst and twin tower events, they email from laptop/satdish/mobiles...

Noel

 

[Leica Geek]

I knew several pros that used Leicas, but have now gone digital. I wonder if they want to sell their gear for cheap?

 

[ray_g]

Factoid: more than 50% of all the Leica's ever produced are in the hands of collectors in Japan.

 

[rover]

With regards to whether a camera is a pro/prosumer/consumer is a description for price point and marketing.

For a marketing department, but not my thought of the topic of this thread.

If x-ray grabs a Fuji disposable camera at a Walgreen's Pharmacy and photographs a street festival with it, that camera is/was a professional camera.

If I attended the same festival with my M6, or if I owned a EOS 1D mark what ever they are up to and also took photographs, that camera is a hobbyist tool.

I don't think price of the unit has anything to do with it, I think it is the eye behind the finder.

 

[KM-25]

I used to know half a dozen or more photographers who used Leica M's for professional work, now I personally know of none. Does that seem an accurate observation?

Nope, I use two for my work.

Granted, it is very use specific work but it is work none the less. I own 10 camera bodies and around two dozen lenses, all are for pro use. The first cameras to come out are either one of two 5D's or my two M6's. My favorite M6 is the one with flare free optics black logo, M3 wind lever and custom blacked out hot shoe rails.

I can name off at least 5 other shooters who use Leica M's for work. Maybe not exclusively, but they do use them.

 

[Xmas]

Factoid: more than 50% of all the Leica's ever produced are in the hands of collectors in Japan.

I am reminded of the Dilbert cartoon, where the boss accuses the guys of thinking about girls 75% of the time, Wally's thought bubble says 'Alice' Dilbert's thought bubble says '75%?'.

Noel

 

[xayraa33]

until the intro of the Leica M3, most pros used the Contax when a 35mm rf camera was needed.
the Leica was more for the well heeled hobbyist.

 

[merciful]

I still use Ms.

 

[Xmas]

until the intro of the Leica M3, most pros used the Contax when a 35mm rf camera was needed.
the Leica was more for the well heeled hobbyist.

In '39 only one pro was using a 35mm (a Contax) when UK (Fleet Sreet) were allowed free access to HMS Exeter, in '53 Vining was the only stills allowed in the Abbey for the Cornation of Liz II(still the same ContaxII). The penetration of 35mm was not really high until '60s, lots of pros used a minature - a 6x6 Rolli, in 50s some were still on speed graphics and bulbs.

The Ja collectors maintain the difference in price between Contax IIa, M2, and SPs, a beaten up black M2 is a lot more Yen than a new condition M4-2... a photog is going to prefer the M4-2 or later even if only for the parts availability?

Noel

 

[Leica Geek]

I draw for a living and I use what they give me mostly Color Erase Pencils and they get the job done. When I draw for pleasure I use Conte or Charcoal.