Leica LTM Is this a real "Luftwaffe" camera ?

[ray*j*gun]

Yes that is what is meant by a stepper.

That is often indicative of a IIIc (K) model which has ball bearings in the mechanism and was issued to the military and some civilian markets. Some steppers are K's but not all. I bought a stepper and when I had it serviced discovered it was a K stepper. Some IIIc's are marked K but not all K's are marked. I kid you not this is true.

 

[johannielscom]

Just a quick question. When you guys refer to a "stepper", are you talking about the ledge under the A-R lever? And which versions would this appear on?

PF

Yes, the 'step' was only used during a few years of the IIIc production and was abandoned shortly after WWII.

AFAIK there were IIc's and IIIc's with a step, never any other model with a step.




EDIT: While most 'K' marked IIIc or IIc camera's are steppers, not all steppers are 'K' camera's.

• The 'step' was a design feature for IIc and IIIc camera's that was abandoned after the war. Postwar IIc and IIIc camera's do not have the step any more
• During the production of the stepper camera's, Leica also made camera's marked 'K' meaning Kügellager (ball-bearing) or Kältefest (coldresistant). These camera's had ball-bearings installed
• The later model IIIf and IIf all have ball-bearings

The combination of a gray-painted Stepper with a Kügellager shutter is the big prize, it means that this was a wartime camera that was produced for either the Navy (and notably the submarine service) or the Air Force or the German military. These camera's are highly sought after by collectors.
On rare occasions the above mentioned combination also still has its red curtain shutter installed and that would be enough to make any historic Barnack collector collapse at the sight of it 😛

There's a nice thread on IIIc (K) camera's in the LTM forum, btw... explains a lot more. An earlier and much more elaborate thread unfortunately was deleted, some 18 months ago...

 

[splitimageview]

IIIc steppers are my favorite Barnacks. This is my regular shooter that I acquired from ebay; was quite pleased to find a red curtain in it!

 

[farlymac]

Thanks for the info, guys. Before I ever thought of buying an LTM camera, there was a IIIf for sale at one of the local antique stores for $150, but I kept telling myself I didn't want to go down that road. After messing around with some FSU gear, and becoming the owner of a Canon 50/1.8 (black barrel) and Yashica YF, I can just kick myself for not buying that IIIf.

PF

 

[LeicaTom]

It appears to be a "REAL" LE "Stepper" IIIC ca. December 1940, it might be a very rare *Black Curtain" version of the early IIIC (within the first 5,000 made)

I have connections to the original Leica factory records, I can research this camera for you, please write me off the board at: koolgirliestuff@gmail.com

Ohh the lens is like late 1947/Early 1948, so no connections to the camera at all, worth maybe $150 if the glass is good enough to shoot with, without CLA.

Tom

 

[Austrowolf]

Sorry to resurrect a dead thread, but I have just bought a IIIc from the same batch as this camera. It is a 1940 Leica IIIc with 2/50 Summitar, both from the order no. 19151. According to the books, they were delivered to Luftwaffe Bln. on 15.10.1940.

The camera s.n. is 364420,
The lens s.n. is 551251.

What puzzles me is, that the camera is unmarked, just as the lens. There are no LW markings, and no signs of them being removed. Is it possible that the top plate was changed after war?

The camera is dirty and in need of CLA, but I'd love to know more about it before I'll invest in repair.

 

[Clark.EE]

Too good to be true?

 

[Clark.EE]

Fl. no is not centred with the rest of the script.
Does not look quite right?

 

[colyn]

Fl. no is not centred with the rest of the script.
Does not look quite right?

It's as real as it can get. Already been verified by several means including the serial number..

 

[Austrowolf]

Sorry to resurrect a dead thread, but I have just bought a IIIc from the same batch as this camera. It is a 1940 Leica IIIc with 2/50 Summitar, both from the order no. 19151. According to the books, they were delivered to Luftwaffe Bln. on 15.10.1940.

The camera s.n. is 364420,
The lens s.n. is 551251.

What puzzles me is, that the camera is unmarked, just as the lens. There are no LW markings, and no signs of them being removed. Is it possible that the top plate was changed after war?

The camera is dirty and in need of CLA, but I'd love to know more about it before I'll invest in repair.

Just to add a detail: The camera was bought for 200 Euros, so I don't think anybody would take care to fake it.

 

[colyn]

Most likely this camera is not a military issue since Leica continued to make these cameras during the war for civilian use.

I have 2. One an unmarked version and one marked...

 

[Austrowolf]

But that is the puzzling thing. It is listed in both Lager's and Cane's list as being Luftwaffe issue. Both the lens and the camera have their serial numbers listed in the same Luftwaffe delivery...

 

[johannielscom]

Maybe the top was replaced by Leitz at a later service moment, thus removing the wartime provenance. Maybe it was 't engraved at all because some officer wanted it for himself?
Who knows...

 

[Scrambler]

Maybe the top was replaced by Leitz at a later service moment, thus removing the wartime provenance. Maybe it was 't engraved at all because some officer wanted it for himself? Who knows...

While the wartime markings are now collectible, time was that you'd have paid good money to be rid of them. That seems at least possible, particularly straight after the war, when replacements would have still been in production.

 

[sevo]

Sold to the Luftwaffe might not always imply that it was engraved for staff use. There may have been cameras bought for purposes besides service use, say as presents or bribes, or to replace privately owned cameras that had been lost on duty.

written on the road

 

[colyn]

I could be wrong but my understanding is that these cameras were not engraved at the factory. Instead they got the engragings at a central processing unit where they were shipped to by Leitz. Some then got the engravings depending if they were going to the Army, Luftwaffe, or other branch or agency.. Some were not engraved..

 

[Austrowolf]

I am not sure where the engraving was done, but the camera is listed in the Leitz ledgers as having been delivered to "Luftwaffe, Bln.", which means Luftwaffe acceptance office, Berlin. Therefore, it was quite clearly destined for the Luftwaffe.

But, no LW engraving whatsoever...

 

[Clark.EE]

I could be wrong but my understanding is that these cameras were not engraved at the factory. Instead they got the engragings at a central processing unit where they were shipped to by Leitz. Some then got the engravings depending if they were going to the Army, Luftwaffe, or other branch or agency.. Some were not engraved..

According to Laney's Leica guide. Quoting Rogliatti.
Luftwaffe bought direct from Leica & were engraved by them.

 

[Austrowolf]

Cane's book mentions the engravings "Luftwaffen-Eigentum" (+Fl. No.), "W.H." and "M" as being carried out by Leitz, while the other military engravings ("Heer", "M. Artl." etc) were made by the armed forces themselves. That is based on the data in Leitz delivery ledgers.

Wouldn't somebody here have an e-mail on Dr. Cane?

 

[Vince Lupo]

Or Jim Lager: Jlager@bellatlantic.net

Just checked Jim's 'Wehrmacht Leica' book, and that camera is listed there. So likely delivered to Berlin but for some reason never engraved.