Sejanus.Aelianus
Veteran
Yes.
No, I don't.
I am, therefor I photograph.
Just plain silly..
- Thread starter Bill Pierce
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Yes.
No, I don't.
I am, therefor I photograph.
Out to Lunch
Veteran
I'd agree with the OP: a long, slow decline from greatness...
back alley
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maybe look up the meaning of the word...
back alley
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that's pretty honest...
Bill Pierce
Well-known
My worries about Leica have little to do with instant collectables and conspicuous consumption as expense and design.
(1) When I was starting out as a photographer I made very little money but could afford a Leica and make an intelligent, experience based decision on whether it or an SLR or larger format camera was the right tool for the work I was doing and the work I wanted to do.
(2) Leica still makes the best built-in bright line finder in the business. The way you see an image when you are taking a picture is incredibly important. But I’m not sure the rangefinder is any longer the best way to focus lenses. But folks don’t call a Leica a bright line camera; they call it a rangefinder camera. I don’t know that Leica could replace the rangefinder with a better system.
I would love an affordable Leica with a modern focusing system. They could call it the Leica N (for new).
(1) When I was starting out as a photographer I made very little money but could afford a Leica and make an intelligent, experience based decision on whether it or an SLR or larger format camera was the right tool for the work I was doing and the work I wanted to do.
(2) Leica still makes the best built-in bright line finder in the business. The way you see an image when you are taking a picture is incredibly important. But I’m not sure the rangefinder is any longer the best way to focus lenses. But folks don’t call a Leica a bright line camera; they call it a rangefinder camera. I don’t know that Leica could replace the rangefinder with a better system.
I would love an affordable Leica with a modern focusing system. They could call it the Leica N (for new).
Murchu
Well-known
L Collins
Well-known
There are dilettantes. That is pejorative.
There are cash heavy dilettantes. "Cash heavy" only adds possession of money to the definition. Those are the people who buy overpriced Leica goodies.
So, my only criticism of being "cash heavy" would be that it allows dilettantes, ie. people who arent really serious about photography, to purcahse overpriced Leica goodies. But if you follow my logic, it's not being "cash heavy" that is being denigrated, its being a dilettante.
Sorry to confuse you.
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MISH
Well-known
Leica has survived and is now thriving on the fact that a great number of people that are not "serious about photography" are attracted to their brand
( I would bet that if they had raised the price it would have sold out even quicker )
( I would bet that if they had raised the price it would have sold out even quicker )
Sejanus.Aelianus
Veteran
I honestly think that was true for the M3 but I haven't liked any of the other Leicas that I've looked through: M2, M4 and M6. The Retina 1B has, in my opinion, a bright line that's nearly as good as the M3 and I wish I hadn't sold mine. Still, I'm sure I can find another.
About the importance of the viewfinder, I agree with you.
Brian Atherton
Well-known
I make the observation that the 'overpriced Leica goodies' are apparently considered not overpriced to such 'cash heavy dilettantes', ergo they wouldn't be purchased.
Regardless of cost, once bought, it is up to the purchaser what they do with their 'overpriced Leica goodies', which is pretty much the same for all us who buy gear, regardless of expenditure.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Photo_Smith
Well-known
Yes i did before I posted it says
"a person with an amateur interest in the arts, without professional knowledge
ORIGIN mid 18th cent.: from Italian, ‘person loving the arts,’ from dilettare ‘to delight'
I'm taking that to mean this edition of the camera would be bought by someone who loves Ralph's images and would like to collect a camera he has used; but won't use it for professional work?
I can't really see how that is viewed as such a negative, people have money and it's Leica's prerogative to sell as many as it can-think of it as a subsidy for the 'real user'.
Collecting is like that.
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dilettante |ˌdiliˈtänt, -ˈtäntē| noun
a person who cultivates an area of interest, such as the arts, without real commitment or knowledge:
a person who cultivates an area of interest, such as the arts, without real commitment or knowledge:
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Photo_Smith
Well-known
Yes see, just an amateur interest– nothing negative there:
From Wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dilettante
A dilettante is a person who enjoys the arts or someone who engages in a field as an amateur out of casual interest rather than as a profession
I hardly think that is a slight, I suppose you could take it that way if you had professional aspirations?
I guess we'll just have to disagree on this one.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
back alley
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without real commitment or knowledge
seems a put down in this thread's context.
why are people so put off by what a camera company does?
i read some of this drivel here, about the beginnings of leica from people who think they have a right to speak for leica at it's beginnings.
leica was invented to take advantage of cheap film that was lying about…and now they sell kits worth 28K…big deal!
it's a camera…buy it/use it/store it what the hell does it matter to anyone here?
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear Joe,
I completely see your point. What intrigues me is who thinks they have the right or indeed ability to define "real commitment or knowledge". One award winning photographer of my acquaintance (Vanessa Winship) used to take McJobs in order to fund her photography habit. But equally, I know someone else (Tim Rudman) who became a world authority (possibly the world authority) on lith printing when working as a doctor.
If someone buys a Leica as a snapshot camera (and I've met them too), why isn't that "commitment"? And if it's an M-series, well, it's going to require more knowledge than a point-and-shoot. For that matter, buying every new Leica when it comes out is a commitment -- and it helps keep Leica in business. I know at least one collector who is also a very competent historian. That's another form of commitment.
As so often (as you implicitly point out), some people on this thread are suffering from severe hardening of the categories. Their world picture seems to be, "Unless people do it MY way they aren't REAL photographers." You do it your way; I'll do it my way; and I think we'll agree that Leica has every right to do it Leica's way.
Cheers,
R.
