Kodak is working on a Chapter 11 bankruptcy (three threads merged)

dave lackey said:
Question:

What is the latest situation with the Kodak sensor in the M9? Who is making it and where?:confused: Must have been asleep at the wheel as I don't remember who is doing the manufacturing/R&D since the sell-off....:eek:
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Dave,

They sold off the sensor unit a few months back. Sold to Platinum Equity. Discussed elsewhere on RFF if I recall, feel free to read about it on Reuters here.

Kent
 
jsrockit said:
And which one of those is produced in significant volumes during 2011?
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Yeah, in that output, I see a lot of those back-ordered, like our beloved (at least for some, including me) Zeiss products. ;)

Though, while at the Dallas Museum of Art the other day, I was surprised to see the gift shop actually had some Holga cameras....

I wonder if Fuji would consider buying the Kodak film devision. Though, they've been axing some of their own films, like Neopan 1600, so I doubt they'd be terribly interested in that.....
 
buzzardkid said:
Excuse me, I'm totally ignorant when it comes to chapter eleven filings etc, being EU-based and totally uneconomical myself... :D

What does this mean? Out of business altogether? Going, going, gone? End of film?

More info very welcome, I'm ready to stock up on Tri-X :)
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Chapter 11 is a reference to the USA's bankruptcy law, which contains "chapters". Depending on the chapter, it's a kind of bankruptcy, some being for protection from debt collection / asset repossession during a "restructuring" with a court-appointed person who coordinates etc etc etc etc. It's very complex and you actually need to pay a lawyer to get through it...missing the point of bankruptcy.
 
Aristophanes said:
Photography has been riding the demand for motion picture film.
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The only maker for which that may have been true in recent years is Kodak.

Aristophanes said:
It will be very difficult to put new investor money into the industrial production of film manufacturing when your entire ROI depends on users of cameras made in the 1970's and 80's
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Well, if the proposing party tries to make the investors believe they are buying into a growth based consumer goods business, you are right. But there are plenty of successful businesses that attract investment based upon things even more outdated and obsolete than film - whether the production of fencing blades, mechanical watches, symphonic music or the riding and horse industry. Much of the luxury industries has a strong legacy angle to it.

Of course it is another question whether Kodak (or any fragment of it) will be able to jump the luxury train. Historically they've been key pioneers of the disposable mass product, so they haven't been well set up for that in any case. And in the past three of four years they've been horribly butchered by that low grade printer man - quite probably every manager capable of transforming them into a high value maker has fled in panic...
 
Mephiloco said:
Can't hurt to stock up on film stock regardless. Once Tri-X is gone I'm done with film, hopefully there will be a better full frame body that'll take my lenses than the M9 at that time, if not, oh hello Fuji.
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Not trying to argue here, but I'm surprised you feel that there is more difference between Tri-X and, say, HP5 than between Tri-X and digital.
 
sevo said:
The only maker for which that may have been true in recent years is Kodak.



Well, if the proposing party tries to make the investors believe they are buying into a growth based consumer goods business, you are right. But there are plenty of successful businesses that attract investment based upon things even more outdated and obsolete than film - whether the production of fencing blades, mechanical watches, symphonic music or the riding and horse industry. Much of the luxury industries has a strong legacy angle to it.

Of course it is another question whether Kodak (or any fragment of it) will be able to jump the luxury train. Historically they've been key pioneers of the disposable mass product, so they haven't been well set up for that in any case. And in the past three of four years they've been horribly butchered by that low grade printer man - quite probably every manager capable of transforming them into a high value maker has fled in panic...
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Nice discussion. I personally think that niche production aimed at quality/aesthetic oriented consumers is do-able, but is more difficult in the U.S. than in Europe. It is the only future for Kodak, and I agree that we cannot assume that it will simply happen. Kodak and all its products can very well disappear: we have a history of walking away from unprofitable enterprise in the U.S.

Personally, I think the State should step in and act as guarantor of loans for re-founding the company. They could insist on a new management team and supervise decision-making. After a much smaller, leaner company gets back on its feet, they can get private financing and the State role ends. I think it is in the interest of the people of New York State to keep Kodak in Rochester.
 
Aristophanes said:
The labour, time, and technical knowledge necessary to master scanning effectively would do little to stem the decline of roll film sales.

The single best way to scan is right after development such as with a Fuji Frontier system.
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Once again I'm professing my naivety, but if Kodak had the digital technology for sensors, built lenses in the past (or at least outsourced them), and had software for color correction (they have all-in-one scanners) would this have been such a big leap for them?

I'm obviously not suggesting they do it now, but why wasn't it a product in the past? Did Nikon lose money on the Coolscans? How about Hasselblad and it's Imacons? Heidelberg Tangos?

Are Fuji Frontiers capable of scanning large format?
 
useless generation said:
+1 for no care for Tri-X I can always use Hp5+ it's the Kodak portra and ektar I'm worried about :(
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Similar feelings here. I have used Fuji Pro160S for most part of my C41 photography, but found recently that I prefer the colors from Ektar and Portra films. And given how Fuji discontinues one film after another I have NO hope for any new products for them. In the BW world I feel quite safe with Ilford and all the smaller producers.
 
goo0h said:
Yeah, in that output, I see a lot of those back-ordered, like our beloved (at least for some, including me) Zeiss products. ;)

Though, while at the Dallas Museum of Art the other day, I was surprised to see the gift shop actually had some Holga cameras....

I wonder if Fuji would consider buying the Kodak film devision. Though, they've been axing some of their own films, like Neopan 1600, so I doubt they'd be terribly interested in that.....
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Good news is that if they're back-ordered it means there's demand for them and more will be made.
Likewise, there's no reason to expect film will completely disappear as long as there's strong enough demand to turn a profit. In fact, Kodak's film guy DiSabato recently said that it only took 10 months in 2011 to match the sales for all of 2010.
http://filmwasters.tumblr.com/post/13106335700/film-photography-podcast-interview-with-scott
Frankly, it's useless to try to judge the entire film industry based on one badly managed company's thinking about filing chapter 11.
 
dallard said:
Good news is that if they're back-ordered it means there's demand for them and more will be made.
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... and in fact when I contacted popflash to inquire about the Zeiss stuff, I had them put me on a waiting list for any updates. Since he said they're maintaining such a list, apparently others are interested in buying this gear once it becomes available.....
 
Chuck Albertson said:
While you're sweating about being able to buy a roll of Tri-X, spare a thought for Kodak's retirees. Their pension benefits are the target of the anticipated Chapter 11 filing, and would be wiped out.
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Yea, there is far more at stake here than not being able to buy some film. As an employee or pensioner you are last in line being an unsecured creditor. No worries, you will get your fair share of dick all after the secured creditors have theirs. You can still get film from other sources, so what is the hardship?

Bob
 
Kodak - toast. Huge fixed costs for a product for which demand is dwindling. Fuji is the model of how to survive in both the film and digital world with a vibrant offering of both films, digital cameras in every category, and even occasional film cameras. However, even Fuji is revising their forecasting downward for 2012:

Fujifilm has been strengthening marketing systems, launching new products, and taking other measures that have been supporting robust sales in China and other emerging markets. However, overall sales have been below planned levels owing to the impact of such factors as a demand decrease associated with yen appreciation and the perception of deteriorating economic conditions. Operating income has also been below planned levels owing to the impact of the decrease in sales as well as yen appreciation and other factors. Income before income taxes and net income attributable to FUJIFILM Holdings have also been below planned levels as a consequence of negative factors that include impairment losses on investment securities recognized under the stagnant stock markets.

Considering these circumstances, the Company has revised down its forecasts of revenue, operating income, income before income taxes, net income attributable to FUJIFILM Holdings, and net income attributable to FUJIFILM Holdings per share for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2012

http://www.fujifilmholdings.com/en/...ings_summary/2011/quarter2/forcast/index.html

With a stock price below $0.50, and preparations for Chapter 11, in a climate that the most well-positioned company is struggling to survive in... I'd say stock up on whatever Kodak film stock is your preferance.
 
NickTrop said:
Kodak - toast. Huge fixed costs for a product for which demand is dwindling. Fuji is the model of how to survive in both the film and digital world with a vibrant offering of both films, digital cameras in every category, and even occasional film cameras. However, even Fuji is revising their forecasting downward for 2012:

Fujifilm has been strengthening marketing systems, launching new products, and taking other measures that have been supporting robust sales in China and other emerging markets. However, overall sales have been below planned levels owing to the impact of such factors as a demand decrease associated with yen appreciation and the perception of deteriorating economic conditions. Operating income has also been below planned levels owing to the impact of the decrease in sales as well as yen appreciation and other factors. Income before income taxes and net income attributable to FUJIFILM Holdings have also been below planned levels as a consequence of negative factors that include impairment losses on investment securities recognized under the stagnant stock markets.

Considering these circumstances, the Company has revised down its forecasts of revenue, operating income, income before income taxes, net income attributable to FUJIFILM Holdings, and net income attributable to FUJIFILM Holdings per share for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2012

http://www.fujifilmholdings.com/en/...ings_summary/2011/quarter2/forcast/index.html

With a stock price below $0.50, and preparations for Chapter 11, in a climate that the most well-positioned company is struggling to survive in... I'd say stock up on whatever Kodak film stock is your preferance.
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Didn't Fuji venture off into pharmaceuticals recently?

That could be a pretty smart move with so many people claiming to be completely 'sick' of hearing about Kodak and the demise of film! :D
 
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