Kodak on 10 Brands that will Disappear in 2010 List

[wgerrard]

That's true, same as I don't know a single person who would reject film photography because film gear isn't sold in street shop.

True. But, then, I know no one other than myself who has made a deliberate decision to buy a film camera. When people who want to buy a camera -- as opposed to "getting into photography -- go shopping, they go to a store that sells only digitals. If they stumble upon a film camera online, say, on Amazon, they won't be interested because they don't know where to buy film or where to get it developed or how to get the pictures into their computer, which is where they want them. They also figure there's no reason to spend money on film and processing.

 

[bmattock]

I give.

The machines, the silver, aluminum, nickel, vinyl and all the other chemicals that go into making a LP are not comparable to film manufacturing.

If you are interested, go to youtube and "how it is made vinyl records".

I followed a series published in the now-defunct (print) magazine "No Depression" for quite awhile as they wrote about a couple making a go of it pressing LP records. I found it fascinating. I also recall reading that they had something like 50K USD invested in equipment. A relatively small outlay compared to the cost of making commercial-quality or quantity photographic film.

Again, comparing the two of them on the basis of their ingredients is not really conducive to understanding the differing bars to entry.

How many LP companies started up last year? How many new film manufacturers? That should more or less settle it.

Still, if you are arguing on the basis that film is very much like LP records that such should be do-able, let's revisit this thread in a year, two years, etc, and see how may mom-and-pop color print film companies spring up to serve that amazing demand that will be created when Kodak, et al, go foom.

 

[wgerrard]

Bill, that would make no economic sense for Kodak, whose existing film sales are heading deeper into the toilet every year.

Right, which supports the notion they're dumping film they can't sell.

Re: The future 100 years from now -- I plan to send my personal robots out to take 3-D quantum images of every event that interests me, long before they happen. Then I plan to come to RFF and complain that Leica's new rangefinder version of a miniature human eye-quantum display link should be priced at $1.4 bazillion instead of $1.5 bazillion. While I'm there I'll find a thread arguing that no one really needs to buy the new Leica at any price because the old models work just fine, as long as you can put up with the electrode attached to your left temple.

 

[bmattock]

That's true, same as I don't know a single person who would reject film photography because film gear isn't sold in street shop.

That is because 'we' habitually confuse ourselves with the market. We are not the market, we're a tiny little niche of weirdos. The rest of the world could not possibly care enough about the amazing qualities of film to go looking for it.

I know it is natural to think of what we want as the 'norm', but it isn't.

 

[stig_dahlin]

Well, Kodak or no Kodak. Check FreeStyle's list of manufacturers of 35 mm film. http://www.freestylephoto.biz/index.php
Nine companys! Is it likely that all of them will go bankrupt soon? All of them? I don't think so. Personnaly I'm not dependent on Kodak, though I've always loved their products. There are some lesser manufacturers of quite decent films in low-wage countries and they already have their plants and products.
I am totally convinced that film will be obtainable for a very long time.
Kodak or no Kodak.

 

[Mackinaw]

A retired Kodak engineer has indeed made black and white large format film in his basement, and has taught many people to do the same in seminars. It can be done, and it has been done. That's not a commercial venture, and as far as I know, there is a rather huge hurdle between coating one's own sheet film with liquid emulsion and putting perforated 35mm film in little cartridges. And color is more or less right out.

Seems to be the appropriate place to show the "make-your-own-120-roll-film-in-your-garage" link. This was made by some retired Kodak engineer in Australia. 3 layers too.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dark_orange/sets/72157603226919391/

Jim B.

 

[Pickett Wilson]

I was doing a workshop on digital photography a few weeks back that had folks from their early 20's to 60+ years old. At the beginning of the day I walked over to each of the younger attendees with a Kodachome slide and asked them if they knew what it was. Not a single one had ever seen such a thing. They all knew what film was, but only two out of the group had actually held film in their hand. None had ever shot film. The the rest of the group had used film cameras in the past, but not in the last six or seven years. That's why film has no future.

 

[Etabeta]

Etabeta, not only will film be gone in a hundred years, but digital as well. The world as it will exist 100 years from now is beyond our imagination.

Perhaps you are write. That's why we don't have to worry about film right now...

 

[jwc57]

Well, if I have rubbed anyone the wrong way, I apologize. I joined a few weeks ago and didn't intend for my first posts to be about the difference or similarities of LP's and film. I'm more of an optimist when it comes to film. Then again, I still bulk load 35mm film, process it, and print it myself. I also drive a 1974 VW Beetle and I'm restoring a 1978 VW camper...so I'm just a tiny bit old fashion.

I believe film will still be available, maybe in a limited form, for many years. I remember reading about five years ago of photographers who still shoot 8x10 cameras and make their own glass plates. I think that is where my "hope" comes from...that there will always be those who think outside current trends and stubbornly pursue those things that they are truly passionate about.

 

[aizan]

i bet the professional, art, and education markets can support even color film production, comparatively limited though they may be. the arts are not totally "rational".

 

[aizan]

I was doing a workshop on digital photography a few weeks back that had folks from their early 20's to 60+ years old. At the beginning of the day I walked over to each of the younger attendees with a Kodachome slide and asked them if they knew what it was. Not a single one had ever seen such a thing. They all knew what film was, but only two out of the group had actually held film in their hand. None had ever shot film. The the rest of the group had used film cameras in the past, but not in the last six or seven years. That's why film has no future.

it's probably because they were new to photography...look on flickr and deviant art. there are lots of young folks learning about and using film. it may not be what they start out with, but it's what they move up to.

 

[bmattock]

Seems to be the appropriate place to show the "make-your-own-120-roll-film-in-your-garage" link. This was made by some retired Kodak engineer in Australia. 3 layers too.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dark_orange/sets/72157603226919391/

Jim B.

Yes, I'd seen the link before. Dated 2007. Where are those commercial-grade products it makes?

All of those who have in the past stomped off swearing that they would just do it themselves have all failed to return with the commercial results of their energy. Jim Mowry did actually create film on his own, and apparently this fellow too. None of them have created commercial film for sale, and I think that's pretty indicative of how high the bar to entry really is.

 

[Pickett Wilson]

Kinda like those who were developing digital backs for old film cameras. They haven't been heard from since. 🙂

 

[aizan]

didn't those guys do it by themselves using homemade equipment? does efke, foma, maco, adox, etc. make even bw film with such limited resources?

 

[jwc57]

it's probably because they were new to photography...look on flickr and deviant art. there are lots of young folks learning about and using film. it may not be what they start out with, but it's what they move up to.

That is a very good point. Until I got to college and started taking photography, I had never taken a photo in my life. A 35mm camera was something that was only seen on TV. I was a sketch artist and worked in water color. I knew photography was something I wanted to do professionally and pursued it.

(Ironically, I would find out twenty years later when my bio dad and I reconnected, he owned 35mm cameras and shot USO shows on board Navy ships when sailing to Vietnam.)

 

[photogdave]

I also drive a 1974 VW Beetle and I'm restoring a 1978 VW camper...so I'm just a tiny bit old fashion.

Digital vs film is often like air-cooled vs water-cooled! 😉
I shoot film but drive a water-cooled Vanagon Westy.
See you on TheSamba!

 

[Pickett Wilson]

Interesting. The workshop I was doing was actually for a group of artists who used cameras to shoot photos to paint from. They all had a lot of experience with cameras, but wanted to get better results from their digital cameras.

 

[jwc57]

Digital vs film is often like air-cooled vs water-cooled! 😉
I shoot film but drive a water-cooled Vanagon Westy.
See you on TheSamba!

LOL, just got back from over there.


Something I had forgotten, but might be relevant, is that I mentor high school students whose senior project is photography. Each and every one were not just interested in the darkroom I still have, but wanted me to teach them about shooting film, processing it, and printing. I had to admit to them that the reason everything was covered was because I had stopped shooting film.

It was their interest that made me rethink my position and start cleaning the equipment for use once again. I guess, that as I break out my Hi-Matic, my S2, and my RB67's, I should thank them.....or maybe curse them. Time will tell.

 

[jwc57]

Mmmmmm, Hi-Matic.

I have a 7s and an E. I've never shot anything with the E, it just sits on a shelf in the studio as a display. The 7s used to go with me to weddings and I might start taking it with me again.

 

[furcafe]

That's been my recent (last 4 years) experience w/the "young people" (folks in their late teens-30s) as well. I seriously doubt it's enough to save film as a mainstream medium, but I believe there is enough of a niche market left to sustain a few manufacturers for a few years.

I agree w/all of those who've posted earlier that the key factor is how economically feasible it is, or will be, to produce roll film in small batches. I would like to think that there is @ least a slim possibility that continuing progress in computer-assisted design & manufacturing (e.g., just 20 years ago, who would have thought it would be possible to have a 3-dimensional printer in your home/workshop?), combined w/an advance or 2 in coating technology (perhaps from the biotech side?) could help preserve a cottage film industry. After all, wasn't Kodachrome invented by a couple guys in a basement?

Something I had forgotten, but might be relevant, is that I mentor high school students whose senior project is photography. Each and every one were not just interested in the darkroom I still have, but wanted me to teach them about shooting film, processing it, and printing. I had to admit to them that the reason everything was covered was because I had stopped shooting film.

It was their interest that made me rethink my position and start cleaning the equipment for use once again. I guess, that as I break out my Hi-Matic, my S2, and my RB67's, I should thank them.....or maybe curse them. Time will tell.