Kodak on 10 Brands that will Disappear in 2010 List

[sepiareverb]

Yeah, I was talking with my friend, the photo teacher about just that this evening. She said that she hears from the grapevine from other colleges that when students in Photo I hear that the class is not digital, half of them drop right away. She was amazed that at Phoenix College, that never happens!

I'm teaching two sections of Photo 1 (all film) this semester as is a colleague. Both of us have had more students than we can fit approach us to get in, and both of us have one section over the limit by one. This at a very small state college that has digital photo classes as well. Someone yesterday asked if she could develop 120 film because she has two Diana cameras she wants to play with. Surprisingly most of my students are not in the Visual Arts department this time around (photo is required for them)- they're taking it because they want to.

gawd, would someone just tell me if color film NEEDS mainstream consumers to still be made?

I think you have to pm Bill to find out for sure.🙄

 

[Roger Hicks]

If you walk into a Walmart or a Target or a Kmart or Sears or Wards or...you will not find a film camera to buy. 200 million people a week walk through the doors of one of Wal-Mart's store's alone. If there are no film cameras in the places people actually shop, they do not exist.

Dear Pickett,

An interesting definition of existence. Because you are not present in the places I go, does this mean that you don't exist?

You don't get live elephants in Walmart, either. Does this mean that elephants don't exist?

Cheers,

R.

 

[Keith]

Normally I can relate to your posts Roger but that's a pretty strange simile! 😀

And everyone knows you can get elephants on line! 😛

 

[Dave Wilkinson]

I have'nt seen the 'thought police' around here - do they really exist ?

 

[Lilserenity]

I'm gonna bag myself an elephant at Tescos.

Then Asda will come out with a cheaper elephant.

Sainsburys will join the fray but be a bit more expensive but have a cheeky Jamie Oliver showing you what you can rustle up in a tick.

Morrisons will consider their options then out of the blue Asda will offer a Smartprice Elephant for half the price of the normal elephant.

Tescos will dispute this in a telly ad' featuring Barbara Windsor telling us every little 'elps!

Asda will say MySupermarket.com.co.uk.gov.org.ac.uk.com is an independent price checker and that their Smartprice elephant is indeed the cheapest....

I guess you gotta be a Brit to get this but umm, a bit of humour was called for 🙂

 

[Sparrow]

I'm gonna bag myself an elephant at Tescos.

Then Asda will come out with a cheaper elephant.

Sainsburys will join the fray but be a bit more expensive but have a cheeky Jamie Oliver showing you what you can rustle up in a tick.

Morrisons will consider their options then out of the blue Asda will offer a Smartprice Elephant for half the price of the normal elephant.

Tescos will dispute this in a telly ad' featuring Barbara Windsor telling us every little 'elps!

Asda will say MySupermarket.com.co.uk.gov.org.ac.uk.com is an independent price checker and that their Smartprice elephant is indeed the cheapest....

I guess you gotta be a Brit to get this but umm, a bit of humour was called for 🙂

that’s good, at least they’ll keep the riffraff out of Waitrose

 

[bmattock]

Dear Pickett,

An interesting definition of existence. Because you are not present in the places I go, does this mean that you don't exist?

You don't get live elephants in Walmart, either. Does this mean that elephants don't exist?

Cheers,

R.

I think the meaning is clear and understandable. As Marie Antoinette allegedly said, "Let them eat cake!" There was no cake, which was the point of the apocryphal tale. Ah, some pounce-trifles might argue, but cake did indeed exist. True, but there was no cake to be had for the starving masses, and that is the same as there not being any cake.

Are there elephants? Certainly. But there are none in Wal-Mart, and if one is budget-constrained or if one does not live near Calcutta, there are no elephants to be had, and that is, I think, the point being made.

 

[Andy Kibber]

200 million people a week walk through the doors of one of Wal-Mart's store's alone.

An entirely reasonable, perhaps even conservative, estimate.

 

[Roger Hicks]

I'm gonna bag myself an elephant at Tescos.

Then Asda will come out with a cheaper elephant.

Sainsburys will join the fray but be a bit more expensive but have a cheeky Jamie Oliver showing you what you can rustle up in a tick.

Morrisons will consider their options then out of the blue Asda will offer a Smartprice Elephant for half the price of the normal elephant.

Tescos will dispute this in a telly ad' featuring Barbara Windsor telling us every little 'elps!

Asda will say MySupermarket.com.co.uk.gov.org.ac.uk.com is an independent price checker and that their Smartprice elephant is indeed the cheapest....

I guess you gotta be a Brit to get this but umm, a bit of humour was called for 🙂

I initially misread that as "very little 'elps." Often the things I misread or mishear are more entertaining than the original...

(Not than your wit, but than Tesco's ads).

Given that Asda is (as far as I recall) Walmart-owned, theirs will probably be a Chinese elephant.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Roger Hicks]

I think the meaning is clear and understandable. As Marie Antoinette allegedly said, "Let them eat cake!" There was no cake, which was the point of the apocryphal tale. Ah, some pounce-trifles might argue, but cake did indeed exist. True, but there was no cake to be had for the starving masses, and that is the same as there not being any cake.

Are there elephants? Certainly. But there are none in Wal-Mart, and if one is budget-constrained or if one does not live near Calcutta, there are no elephants to be had, and that is, I think, the point being made.

Sorry, Bill, I just can't accept this one. The number of things that 'don't exist' unless you look for them is legion, as is the number of things you won't find if you go to the wrong shop. It is true that some supermarkets don't carry film (actually, the ones around here do), but then, you don't normally find film in bicycle shops, either.

Good phrase, 'pounce-trifle', but hardly applicable here.

Cheers,

R.

 

[wgerrard]

Yeah, I was talking with my friend, the photo teacher about just that this evening. She said that she hears from the grapevine from other colleges that when students in Photo I hear that the class is not digital, half of them drop right away. She was amazed that at Phoenix College, that never happens!

It's all that sun, Chris.

While film is obviously not literally "invisible" (there's a Walgreen's a couple hundred yards from me), I would argue that it has very much left the consciousness of typical consumers. By "typical", I mean someone who wants to take pictures, not become a photographer. People who consider themselves photographers have always made up a specialty market. People who just want to take pictures have always been mainstream consumers.

If someone is interested in photography, there's a good chance they at least will take a moment to consider using film, and, perhaps, locate some local speciality shops or online retailers where they can buy film and film equipment.

I don't think other people will do that. They won't give a thought to film because they haven't seen film for years, if ever. Everyone they know has a digital. Digitals are sold everywhere. They will run to the local Big Box and buy a digital.

I think it is also crucial that people who "just want to take pictures" want to store those images on their computers and share and distribute those pictures on the internet. E.g., if someone has just had a baby, they want to post the photos that chart the child's progress to their family and friends. You can't do that with film. People take photos to show to other people. They can make unlimited copies for free, without paying the adolescent down at the drug store to make the copies. These days, the way we communicate with other people is on the net, not via the mail.

We just need to remember that almost all cameras are sold to people who do not think of themselves as photographers.

 

[wgerrard]

It's odd how sometimes the perception of something is stronger than the reality of something.

...

Recent snowfalls in the south of England were significant for England but puny compared to what I have seen and walked around in Chicago, but there was a perception that some supplies might not get through (yep it's truly pathetic but go with me on this) and so people started buying up more milk and bread than usual, this increase created the perception of there being a shortage and it self perpetuated. Such that in the end some fools were buying ridiculous amounts of milk which could only turn the perception of shortage into a reality!

Vicky

Vicky, that does a better job of expressing what I was trying to get at with my "invisible" post than I did.

About that snow: Don't sell yourselves short. I saw a lot of snow pictures on the BBC site. That was the real thing. I live in a part of North Carolina that gets little snow, so when the forecast mentions the word, everyone freaks out and runs to the grocery, too. Every few years, when conditions are just right (cold dry air from the west meets warm moist air from off the coast) we'll get some serious snow.

 

[wlewisiii]

Just as an interesting point of reference, the latest edition of the NatGeo field guide, "Ultimate Field Guide to Photography" has chapters on how to select your digital P&S, DSLR & even using cell phone cams to their best advantage. Unlike the last edition (2006) there is an extensive chapter on using film in the digital age. Make of it what you will.

William

 

[sig]

Interesting title on kodak.com web page... Kodak - digital cameras, camera accessories, printers, ink & more.

Kodak will probably exist next year too. But to do that they will move more and more away from film and spend money on products they can make money on in the future.

 

[sevo]

We just need to remember that almost all cameras are sold to people who do not think of themselves as photographers.

Right, but so what? There always have been companies or divisions that profitably existed from photographers only, or even from small niche markets among photographers.

Even back in pre-digital days, 99% of the great unwashed did not know of the existence of Hasselblad, Mamiya or Rollei (except maybe for the failed 35mm endeavours of the latter), let alone more esoteric brands. Some companies like Arca, Linhof or Plaubel (except for their medium format division) did not have any presence even in professional stores, and even refused to sell to amateurs - up into the seventies you could only purchase their camera by travelling to their factory sales room with written evidence of your professional occupation, or having them send a representative to your studio...

Sevo

 

[wgerrard]

It's interesting how people get to their powders and mushrooms - they aren't available in stores ? 😉

Well, the point that some of us are trying to make is that if people do not see a product -- a film camera -- on the shelves of the stores where they buy everything else they want, that product -- a film camera -- is very likely not going to spring to mind when they decide they want to take some pictures.

Even if they might be aware that places exist that sell film cameras, they have no incentive to make the effort to locate one.

From their point of view, the need to learn how to use a film camera is a disincentive. Who's going to help them? They know no one who uses film.

From their point of view, the recurring cost and hassle of purchasing and paying for processing is a disincentive.

There's a very good chance that the only actual prints they have ever seen are a few from a drug store. There's an equally good chance those prints looked pretty bad. There is a much better chance they know about Photoshop and similar tools and know that they can tweak their digital images so they don't look like those crappy drug store prints.

But, most importantly they want to use the net to show their pictures to other people. That's why cellphones have cameras, after all.

Sure, people who consider themselves artists and photographers will very likely keep film going for some unknowable period of time. In the public consciousness, meanwhile, it is faintly seen and fading fast.

 

[DerekF]

Sure, people who consider themselves artists and photographers will very likely keep film going for some unknowable period of time. In the public consciousness, meanwhile, it is faintly seen and fading fast.

I think this pretty much sums up what a lot of people here have been saying. I don't think anyone's under any illusions that there will be a resurgence of film use among "the average consumer".

 

[David Hughes]

I think this pretty much sums up what a lot of people here have been saying. I don't think anyone's under any illusions that there will be a resurgence of film use among "the average consumer".

True but I can't help thinking that if Kodak stop then everyone else (including Fuji) will get a bigger share of the cake. And Fuji will get the biggest share and so might just be around a little longer.

Regards, David

 

[ryan26]

A Leica is happiest when it gets to shoot about 50 rolls a year apparently. Everybody go buy some Tri-X, if just to keep your equipment in top shape. 😉

 

[Dave Wilkinson]

A Leica is happiest when it gets to shoot about 50 rolls a year apparently. Everybody go buy some Tri-X, if just to keep your equipment in top shape. 😉

But....isn't that the old fashioned black and white stuff - they had to use in 'olden days'? 😉