Leica 21/3.4 or 24/3.8 or Zeiss 21/2.8 or 25/2.8 or Voigt 21/1.8

[neonart]

Sorry for the long title.

I've been researching this a lot and now my head is spinning. Since this is the best place on earth to get Rangefinder Lens input here it goes...

I'm a 50mm guy. Shoot almost everything on my Lux ASPH. Life is good there. I got a 28/2.8 ASPH as my wide lens because it's small, built-in framelines, and it was "affordable". Nice lens really. However, it's often not wide enough. So for me it's focal length that I'm not too fond of, and it doesn't always solve the wide angle need for me.

I'm considering something wider for my M240. Options are Leica 21/3.4 or 24/3.8 (maybe a 2.8) Or Zeiss 21/2.8 or 25/2.8 or the Voightlander 21/1.8.

I'd like to avoid magenta corners, but I can "code" the non Leica lenses, if that works. Your experience and input on this would be awesome.

I will not have an in between focal length. So wide angle, and then 50.

If you own any of these, please let me know your opinions on focal length in comparison to 28, color shift, image quality, price, size, etc. Anything that might be a pro or con to each.

Thank you so much for your input! 😀

 

[CVickery]

I have owned 4 of the lenses you are considering the 21/3.4, 24/3.8, ZM25 and VM21. The two Leica lenses are very similar and work well on the M240. The ZM 25 is also an excellent lens, but I found the occasional magenta edge issue regardless of how it was coded. The VM 21 works great coded as a Summilux.

However, if the Elmarit 28 isn't wide enough for you the Leica 24mm or the ZM 25 don't gain you much FOV.

Of the two 21mm lenses I preferred the Leica for IQ and ergonomics/size. The VM 21 was an excellent lens as well and had the benefit of being a faster lens, but you pay for that in it's size.

 

[neonart]

...The ZM 25 is also an excellent lens, but I found the occasional magenta edge issue regardless of how it was coded. The VM 21 works great coded as a Summilux.

However, if the Elmarit 28 isn't wide enough for you the Leica 24mm or the ZM 25 don't gain you much FOV.

Of the two 21mm lenses I preferred the Leica for IQ and ergonomics/size. The VM 21 was an excellent lens as well and had the benefit of being a faster lens, but you pay for that in it's size.

Thanks CVickery! Great input! I'll scratch the ZM25 off. I don't want to deal with color aberrations in the corners. The VM sure looks tempting at the price! But the size...

Thanks again.

 

[zleica]

If you want to keep the Leica Elmarit-M 28 ASPH, I would recommend that you go for the Leica 21 SEM. If you are thinking about replacing the Elmarit 28 ASPH, then the Elmar 24 may be a better choice to pair with your Summilux 50 ASPH. The Zeiss ZM 25 is actually about 26mm focal length so it may not be wide enough for you, but it's performance is excellent. Performance wise, the ZM 21 and Voigt 21/1.8 are a bit weaker in my own experience. The size of the Voigt 21/1.8 is also not ideal.

 

[tuanvinh2000]

I owned the 21 zm and my copy has performance rivals my 35 cron asph. I shot it mainly on film but i have seen digital leica copes it well enough. However my own usage i prefer 28/35 to 21 which is too wide so i trade it away. Might suggest you already has the best 28 out there. May be try w a 21 first to see you are ok with the focal length before sell the 28. Also consider the size/handling. The 21 leica is smallest w a nice tab. 21 zm isnt large either with a bump.

 

[drew.saunders]

I, too, never really took to the 28mm focal length. For my M6TTL, I have the Leica 24/2.8 ASPH and the CV 21/4. The CV 21/4 is tiny, as is the 25/4 (which I don't have, but have considered getting, as the two CV's would take up just a bit more volume in my bag than the 24/2.8 alone). I do notice the difference in angle of view between the 24 and 21, but rarely take them both with me, as they are fairly close. If the 28 is just a bit short of wide enough, then you'll likely really like a 24 or 25. Can you rent one of each to see which works best for you? Lensrentals.com lists all of the lenses in your subject line.

 

[rscheffler]

I did a 21mm shootout on the M9 a while ago. Link is here.

IMO, of the lenses you listed, the 21SEM is the best choice, if you are happy with f/3.4 maximum aperture. It's extremely sharp already from wide open, has the flattest field of view, is small, with Leica ergonomics. If you shoot mostly stopped down, then the ZM 21/2.8 and CV21/1.8 will be very, very close to the SEM. The ZM with more Zeissy contrast/micro contrast than the CV, though has field curvature that can be evident until stopped down a couple stops. The CV is a great all-rounder if sometimes you need the speed and also need good stopped down performance. I just didn't like the permanently attached hood.

I've only briefly tried the ZM25/2.8 and it is indeed very sharp, but also agree it feels like it has a narrower angle of view than 25mm should be.

 

[neonart]

If you want to keep the Leica Elmarit-M 28 ASPH, I would recommend that you go for the Leica 21 SEM. If you are thinking about replacing the Elmarit 28 ASPH, then the Elmar 24 may be a better choice to pair with your Summilux 50 ASPH. The Zeiss ZM 25 is actually about 26mm focal length so it may not be wide enough for you, but it's performance is excellent. Performance wise, the ZM 21 and Voigt 21/1.8 are a bit weaker in my own experience. The size of the Voigt 21/1.8 is also not ideal.

Thanks zleica. Another strike for the 25, will scratch that one for sure. I'll eventually replace the 28, as I like to keep the kit simple. Had an SLR w 10 lenses at one time and hated it. 3 lenses is my self inflicted limit for my Leica. The Voigt 21 is appealing for low light, which I do shoot in a lot, but that size... ugh.

I owned the 21 zm and my copy has performance rivals my 35 cron asph. I shot it mainly on film but i have seen digital leica copes it well enough. However my own usage i prefer 28/35 to 21 which is too wide so i trade it away. Might suggest you already has the best 28 out there. May be try w a 21 first to see you are ok with the focal length before sell the 28. Also consider the size/handling. The 21 leica is smallest w a nice tab. 21 zm isnt large either with a bump.

The ZM21 seems like a good option, especially since it's a half stop faster than the Leica 21 and 24. Thank you tuanvinh2000

I, too, never really took to the 28mm focal length... I do notice the difference in angle of view between the 24 and 21, but rarely take them both with me, as they are fairly close. If the 28 is just a bit short of wide enough, then you'll likely really like a 24 or 25. Can you rent one of each to see which works best for you? Lensrentals.com lists all of the lenses in your subject line.

Will look to Lensrentals.com. Great idea. Thanks drew.saunders You bring up a good point. 21 may be too wide...

I did a 21mm shootout on the M9 a while ago. Link is here.

IMO, of the lenses you listed, the 21SEM is the best choice, if you are happy with f/3.4 maximum aperture. It's extremely sharp already from wide open, has the flattest field of view, is small, with Leica ergonomics. If you shoot mostly stopped down, then the ZM 21/2.8 and CV21/1.8 will be very, very close to the SEM. The ZM with more Zeissy contrast/micro contrast than the CV, though has field curvature that can be evident until stopped down a couple stops. The CV is a great all-rounder if sometimes you need the speed and also need good stopped down performance. I just didn't like the permanently attached hood.

I've only briefly tried the ZM25/2.8 and it is indeed very sharp, but also agree it feels like it has a narrower angle of view than 25mm should be.

Great writeup rscheffler! Thank you. One really good thing I gleaned from it was that you don't use a viewfinder. Thats cool. I can totally see just "aiming" with the built-in viewfinder and estimating what else will be in the frame.

My main concern with the 21SEM and Elmar24 is the speed. I do quite a bit of event photography that's indoors where there is lousy light. I'll use flash if needed, but prefer not to. Thats what makes it difficult...

In fantasy land someone makes a compact 21 or 24mm f2 thats not $6000.😉

 

[furcafe]

I have the CV 21/1.8 Ultron because it's fast, performs well, & is well-priced (even more so if bought used). Speed is important to me because I almost always use super-wides indoors & f/2.8 is already too slow. The Ultron's performance is excellent for my purposes (mostly people/documentary, not architecture), even wide open. The Ultron's only drawback for me is that it's big, but since I have to use an external VF anyway, blockage isn't an issue & it's a specialty lens like a Noctilux, not a daily carryaround, so I can suck it up.

 

[Rayt]

I mainly shoot b/w film maybe 90% of the time but has an M8 for color. I am interested in the 24/3.8 for the M8 but I understand the high contrast may not be too appealing for b/w film. Any opinions?

 

[neonart]

Thank you for such great input. I'm thinking the Zeiss 21mm f2.8 is going to be the most logical approach. I'm attracted to the idea of the VM21/1.8 for the speed, but I've returned lenses for their size and weight more than once. VM 50/1.1, Lux50A [Silver], to name a couple. It just seems to really negate one of the great advantages of a compact rangefinder kit.

The ZM21 is 2.8, which is good, has great image quality from all reviews and info I can dip up, and if its a newer one it can be paint coded to avoid corner color problems. Not crazy about the 1/3 stops, but thats minor. I had 3 ZM lenses before and it did not bother me.

BTW, any experience here with the Leica 21/2.8?

 

[Jockos]

The Voigt 21 is appealing for low light, which I do shoot in a lot, but that size... ugh.

I find it's actually larger than it really is, because of that darned non-removable (WHY COSINA, WHY?!) hood, which looks like it could do some damage, like slipping under a padded insert in the bag and scratching something up 😡


Other than the size, it's really nice. I don't have a digital Leica, but on the a7, it's good even in the corners:


(Click for full size)

That's a 100% crop from the A7, wide open (with the full image inlaid).

Now remember that this is a f1.8 lens, and it's a whooping 21mm, and it's like $750 used, $1050 NEW at cameraquest.com


Gentlemen, we live in an interesting age!

 

[rscheffler]

The ZM21/2.8 was one of the first lenses I bought when I got into RF with a used M9 about 5 years ago. At the time I felt it was marginally sufficient for available light indoor event-type work. Hence the reason I ended up with the Lux. Had the Voigtlander 21/1.8 been available then, I certainly would have bought it to try first and probably would have stuck with it, since it really is a good all-rounder, with the tradeoff being size and the hood design.

My experience from the current event-type work I shoot with the M240 is that even f/2 is sometimes marginally too slow. But then, I try to shoot the M240 at or under ISO 1000. Above that and the buffer capacity drops by half, as does the frame rate.

I keep two 21s in my kit. One specifically for low light and wide open rendering, the other (the SEM) for when I need its technical performance and smaller size.

That's right about how I often shoot 21mm without an auxiliary viewfinder. I just found those weren't so accurate to start with and added another step in the flow of things. Because I shoot 21mm a lot, I got comfortable with how much wider it is than the 28mm frame lines and found I can usually frame pretty accurately with it. If framing is rather critical, then I'll use the 240's live view.

 

[neonart]

Rscheffler, you make excellent point. I often find myself not having enough light with the 50Lux at 1.4 even with ISO 4000. I will try the CV21/1.8. If I can't stand the size or weight I can always move it along without much loss. Being that it is available at such a great price on the used market, I could keep the Elmarit 28 until I decide one way or another.

 

[Jan Pedersen]

For what it is worth, I had the CV 21/4 and was pretty happy with the lens but I needed a wide angle that would perform equally well in the M246 and the A7II and the 21/4 just did not work on the A7.
I really wanted a 21SEM but this lens does not perform all that well on the A7 so instead I sold the 21/4 and bought a new 21/1.8 and I have had no regrets.
Much less fall off than on the 21/4 and no color cast on the A7II.
Only downside is the hood, it is a pain to replace filters. The size is fine, I don't mind to trade size for speed.

 

[MCTuomey]

I've been fortunate to own each of these lenses except for the CV. The 21 SEM and the 24 SE are the two best wides I've ever used, flat out. Wonderful on the M9, MM, and M240. Only reason not to choose them is if you need greater speed.

 

[neonart]

Well, I found a good deal on CV21/1.8 and it's on the way, but I'm also looking at a 24/3.8.

If the CV21 is as great as most say it is, and I can live with the size/weight it'll be the one.

I'll post some shots when I get it.

Thanks again for such great help!

 

[agoglanian]

I really like 21mm as a focal length, but it's not one that I use all of the time, as such, I often wind up selling whatever 21mm I have at the time. Unlike you however I really do get along well with 28mm and find that for me personally, 28 and 50 pair extremely well together.

Recently I decided I wanted to try another 21mm again after having sold the Voigtlander 21mm Ultron (I just couldn't get past the size on M bodies, I had the same issue with the 35mm f/1.2, which is a shame because they're both super special lenses).

I now have the 21mm f/4 CS. It's just microscopic and it works "OK" on my M240 and presumably quite well on film, which is where I wanted to use it more often. (I haven't developed my test rolls yet).

I also am quite fond of lenses that have a look, so the old Super Angulon is quite interesting to me as well, and for architecture I would definitely be interested in the Zeiss 21mm f/4.5 but it doesn't work super well on digital .

 

[neonart]

So, I received the CV21/1.8 and personally find it much more useful than 28mm. The f1.8 maximum aperture is really useful and warrants the large size. I guess you can have your cake OR eat it, but not both. No complaints with IQ. Very nice. Will post some more samples as soon as I can get some nice shots and not "at home test shots".

I tried to not use an aux viewfinder, but I'm not used to the FOV. Maybe later I'll get better at visualizing the focal length. For now I got a Voigtlander 21/25 metal viewfinder. It's wonderful! Clear, bright, & good looking. We'll see how long before I get sick of it. Live view works great in conjunction, but it's not a replacement... for me anyway. And I just don't care for the EVF, even though it's probably the most sensible option for sensible people. 😀

This is a photo of this combo: (Thumbs up is being replaced with a Thumbie)

And a sample in low light:

 

[rfaspen]

Coma is not evident in that image. Wow! Its still a big lens. Maybe CV is reading this discussion and a vII 21/1.8 will appear that has a removable hood at the least?