Leica CL and 90/4 Elmar - not really love at first sight - questions

[leguaan]

Hi,
I've been using a Bessa R for some time and started looking for something quieter. Because I couldn't afford an M-Leica, and I found the CL really attractive because of its compact size, I bought a CL and Elmar-C 90/4 from eBay. My first impressions are that, unlike Bessa R, this will probably not be a love-at-first sight relationship.

My impressions from Leica CL
+ I love the built and the compactness of the camera
+ I like the leather as opposed to Bessa's rubber
+ I absolutely love the shutter speed being showed in the viewfinder
+ The needle of the meter instead of the red LEDs is a immense relief
- The viewfinder is small and dim compared to the Bessa
- I can't manage to force my Nikon SB-26 flash into the hot shoe
- Focusing with the rangefinder patch is like hell's gate compared to the Bessa
- Compared to my Voigtlaender Nokton 50mm and Ultron 35mm, the Elmar-C 90mm feels like a toy, especially the aperture ring which is clicking quite loudly.

Could you please help me? Are the negatives "normal"? Is it impossible to use "normal" flash with the CL? Is the viewfinder and rangefinder patch a usual issue or should I attempt to "clean" it somehow so that I can get more light in? And - thing which bothers me the most is the feel of the Elmar. I understand that I shouldn't expect the quality of top end Leitz lenses, but is it OK that it's that bad?

I know that I probably should have waited and buy an M, but I somehow prefer storing the money in gear instead of bank and collecting experience on the way selling the gear and re-investing the money when ready for the next step.

 

[Santafecino]

I find that if I use the split-image feature of the CL rangefinder, precise focusing is easier. It isn't as easy as an M-model.

There may be a problem with your particular Elmar-C. Mine is smooth and doesn't click loudly when aperture is changed. You might compare with another one.

 

[Palaeoboy]

Yes all is normal for the CL. The rangefinder patch and viewfinder are dimmer than Leica M's, CLE's and Bessas but quite usable. Not Hell as you described. Firstly have a look at the tiny window on front of the camera which illuminates the rangefinder patch. Its so small that it often collects dirt and muck which decreases the efficiency of the focusing patch. Try get a cleaning tissue into it to clear it out. It should also be noted that the CL does have de-silvering problems sometimes that can also cause dramatic dimming of the patch but try the cleaning step first. Any conventional flash will fit the CL. No need for a multi pin TTL flash as it only has a simple single pin contact. Metz has always been a favourite. The Elmar-C does have a bit of a clunky aperture change but you will find the rest of its construction is sturdier than the Voigtlander lenses in particular the black finish will wear far better. The CL is quirky and is a great compact edition to any kit, but its not designed to replace an M its more aimed at a different market and needs.

 

[payasam]

Maybe you should not react until you have exposed a couple of rolls of film.

 

[underbyte]

My 2¢

The CL is a pain for some of the reasons you mention. However, the Elmar-C is a great lens. The Summicron-C is even better. The CL is not a "great" rangefinder camera. But, it's strengths are that you can have a very small rangefinder camera with a near spot meter, and choices in M lenses. It's great for what it is, a small, light weight M camera. I still use mine, but I bought an M6 TTL for the differences in the rangefinder. The CL is great with lenses like the 25/4 Snapshot Skopar which is scale focused, and the 40mm Summicron-C. Use it for its strengths and you will like it. Try to make it a full sized M with a long base length rangefinder and you will be disappointed.

 

[Armoured]

Use with small, short pancake lenses and you can carry it in a pocket. The Minolta/Leitz 40s are excellent on it.

I think it's also great with the Voigtlander 21. No need to focus really.

It's so nice I haven't really bothered trying it with a longer lens - and I don't expect it to be able to focus my (unadjusted) Jupiter 85f2. Let alone balance properly.

Personally I so far don't really enjoy rangefinders with longer lenses. I'll try harder.

Oh, and I've had no problems with a flash (Metz 32 something). But really does not balance that well with even a medium-sized flash and not my first choice of camera for flash use (esp since no way to put a viewfinder on it then).

 

[leguaan]

Thanks a lot for the comments... I guess I had wrong expectations, I thought it could replace the Bessa, but obviously it can't.

Try to make it a full sized M with a long base length rangefinder and you will be disappointed.

- this thing opened my eyes 🙂 Thanks for that. I'm waiting for LTM-M conversion ring to come in mail this week, will equip it with a 35mm ultron and hope it will be nice to use. Not as tiny as Skopar, but it will have to do for the moment.
50mm f/1.5 will stay on the Bessa for some time. I guess it's of no use to attempt focussing it wide open on the CL 😛
The problem with the flash still persists... There is probably something wrong with the plastic plate in the hot-shoe of the CL. I tried to remove it, and it looks ugly underneath... someone was probably messing with it and had to glue it in place. Never mind... not a big issue, though, I have some hard feelings for the seller for not being completely honest with me.
I'll try to use the CL+CV35mm in summer as much as possible as soon as the conversion rings come and hopefully, will learn to like it for what it is 🙂

 

[johannielscom]

The magnification of the CL is smaller than the 1:1 finder of the Bessa, the Bessa you can focus wit both eyes open, the CL cannot be focused like that.

When focusing the CL, trick is not only to look insde the patch, but also line subjects up both inside and outside the patch, i.e. "line up over the edges". I find it as easy to focus as the Bessa when doing that.

The 90 Elmar is a great lens, and finding one with well-defined 'loud' click stops probably means its seen little use!

 

[Captain]

The magnification of the CL is smaller than the 1:1 finder of the Bessa, the Bessa you can focus wit both eyes open, the CL cannot be focused like that.

The OP said he had a Bessa R which doesnt have a 1:1 finder. Just a 0.7 as opposed to the CL's 0.6

 

[Armoured]

I'll try to use the CL+CV35mm in summer as much as possible as soon as the conversion rings come and hopefully, will learn to like it for what it is 🙂

That's the spirit. Whether it will 'replace' the Bessa will depend what you use it for, but they are different cameras. CL's strengths are in slightly different areas.

And it's not that it can't focus the 50/1.5 or longer lenses - but may not be able to do so reliably, for critical focus work, at wide open apertures. It should be able to focus the 40/2 reliably.

Should be fine in daylight stopped down, for example - so again depends on what you're using it for.

Of course, this all assumes rangefinder is in adjustment.

 

[leguaan]

Ok, couple of films later:
- 90mm @ f/4 photos taken in the evening are all out of focus
- 90mm @ f/4+ photos taken in the daylight are sharp
- 35mm @ f/1.7-2.8 are mostly out of focus
- 35mm @ f/? in close distance (ca.<2m) are ALL out of focus
- 35mm @ f/4+ are OK in daylight

I would keep it for street photo with scale focusing. It's great and small, people think it's a P&S when the 35mm Ultron is on 🙂
However, as I can't afford keeping two rangefinders I guess there are chances we'll have to part soon as I'll be looking for a more versatile M because of the focusing issues.

 

[ramray]

I wonder if you have a problem kit? I have and still use a CL and a CLE. I alos use a Contax G2. I have had a Bessa and an M6 and in time sold them off. The CL is an old camera (made in the 1970s) so will need a full CLA and that might improve image dimness (I find the image just fime). As to the 90/4, I never had a problem and have some 11x14s that are soooo sharp as to rival my 90/2.8 Zeiss. If you used it wide open, close focused and/or a shutter speed under 1/60, it is possible a shot will not be sharp. I had also a 90/2.8 Tele-Emarit on my M6 and found it was in no way sharper than the 90/4.

Use the CL more...take it on a trip and you may like it over your Bessa. But then again you had your Bessa first and may prefer it. In any case happy shooting!

 

[leguaan]

Thanks for the reply, ramray. I guess it really depends from the piece and from the person as well. Meanwhile, I sold both the Elmar (never been a tele guy, and prefer having only 1-2 lenses at a time) and CL (can afford having only one RF body), as well as my DSLR kit, and used the money for buying a M4 + 50/2 hexanon with a 35 lens to come soon. No regrets so far. I have quite big hands + got used to the large VF so it's been a large improvement for me. And it feels just heavenly. I guess I'm not the CL kind of guy 🙂

 

[ramray]

That fine! keep using those rangefinders as there are not many of us users left!