Leica Focusing Arm Problem

[Crasis]

My friend just recieved a Leica M2 and a Summicron 50 (version right after Rigid and DR) which was purchased on these forums just a few weeks ago.

At first, everything was fine and dandy. Apparently the tolerance on the Summicron 50 for engaging the focusing lever arm is quite.. small. What has ended up happening is that after a days use, the lever arm on the M2 has moved down to the point where the Summicron 50 is engaging the lever arm ABOVE the small round rotating wheel. My Summicron 35 has a lower tolerance for engaging the lever arm and thus, still works perfectly on her M2.

I've compared my M6 to her M2 and the M2's focusing arm is bent down ever so slightly, maybe a millimeter or two.

So.. what to do? Is it possible to safely bend the lever arm back up or would this be a mistake? It's sitting slightly canted from being parallel with the camera and I'm wondering if I could just push it up until it's parallel with the camera.

Would doing such a fix throw off the rangefinder alignment in any way? I'm sure there are a bunch more questions I should be asking but I don't know them.

Any information provided would be of great help.

Thanks.

 

[clintock]

At worst bending it back will throw off the infinity adjust , but maybe not, it may wind up putting it back where is should have been.
see
http://nemeng.com/leica/034b.shtml

Just be careful and remember you are pushing against the delicate bearing and mechanisms of the rf. That makes me nervous-you could possibly bend a shaft or break a screw etc.
There may be a screw loose, look closely at the arm to see if it is indeed bent. If so, it's got to get bent back by someone, why not you? It would be safer to remove the arm to bend it, but I'd have to look to see how to do that..
A lens probably got put on wrong in the past and the roller got caught in the wrong place, bending things.
On this page if you scroll down are links to repair manuals for the m2
http://nemeng.com/leica/007e.shtml

 

[Crasis]

Just be careful and remember you are pushing against the delicate bearing and mechanisms of the rf. That makes me nervous-you could possibly bend a shaft or break a screw etc.
There may be a screw loose, look closely at the arm to see if it is indeed bent. If so, it's got to get bent back by someone, why not you? It would be safer to remove the arm to bend it, but I'd have to look to see how to do that..
A lens probably got put on wrong in the past and the roller got caught in the wrong place, bending things.

Yeah, it is a little nerve wracking to think about breaking something. The focusing arm, which looks like a single piece attached to the umm.. back arm? (The part that controls how close you can focus) Well the assembly has a little bit of vertical play of about half a mm. The screw moves along with it so I'm not sure why that is. Perhaps the screw thread is slightly stripped or would trying to tighten the screw actually bring the arm back up enough?

At any rate, even with the vertical play, it is clearly not situated as high vertically as my M6. I'm assuming from the lack of replies that anyone that's looked at this thread so far hasn't encountered a problem such as this or didn't identify it as such. I'm just hoping someone will reply that has seen this problem and maybe will say "DO NOT TRY TO BEND IT BACK YOURSELF!" or something.

Scary stuff, these M cameras 🙁

Edit: Meant to mention, thank you lots for your reply 🙂

 

[Crasis]

With photo

With photo

For anyone that got confused by my explanation and doesn't know what I'm talking about, I'm including an image to outline what part I am referring to. This image was taken from an eBay auction by "hermanp" and all rights to this image belong to him.. or her.. or whatever. I'm just using it for illustrative purposes.

 

[ddutchison]

I'd say have a Leica tech. look at it. It may be a simple (cheap) repair for someone with the right tools and knowledge. There has to be a reason why it's hanging down there, and bending it back may not be the right solution. Leica RF's can be very expensive to fix, and I'd be worried about damaging whatever it is in the RF that the arm attaches to.

 

[Crasis]

I'd say have a Leica tech. look at it. It may be a simple (cheap) repair for someone with the right tools and knowledge. There has to be a reason why it's hanging down there, and bending it back may not be the right solution. Leica RF's can be very expensive to fix, and I'd be worried about damaging whatever it is in the RF that the arm attaches to.

Yeah, cept the only Leica techs I know are either in Vancouver (Lucky you having Horst around) or Kindermann in Ontario. Both require shipping, which chances knocking the rangefinder out of alignment.. and at that point, I'd probably just suck it up and get a CLA while he's fixing this problem.

The only issue is.. it's not my camera and the camera owner can't afford doing so for another few months. I'll probably just pay for the CLA myself since I convinced her to get the M2.

The fun part is, I bought an M2 for myself and I can't wait to have to spend 600 CAD to get 2 cameras CLA'd. 🙂

 

[clintock]

I just got out my m3 and looking at the construction of the arm I think I'm gonna say 'DON'T TRY TO BEND THE ARM'.
It appears to be forged or machined brass or steel, not a stamped strip like what's in the russian cameras for example. Trying to bend that will be like trying to bend a wrench.
Looking at my m3, the bottom of the shiny roller should be even with or maybe even a little higher than the head of the screw that holds the arm to the camera, the screw that turns along with the arm when it moves..

It appears the arm 'height' (what I'm calling the distance from the bottom of the camera) may be adjustable by loosening that screw at the end of the arm where it pivots, then moving that thing that is between the head of the screw and the arm itself, it's got a little slot in it and looks like a washer with an offset lump where that little screwdriver slot is. Then again that may be a cam for adjusting the arm's length, so it could affect linearaty..

There is no play up and down on my m3 arm.

Youxin Ye in boston charges less than the other two main guys for m2 and m3 repairs, I'm going to send my m3 to him for a cla, even though I may be able to do it myself, I'd rather have him do it. I hope I spelled that right.

Edit! According to the service manual, the arm is bendable, using that hole in the arm and some special leica bending tool with a huge catalog number.
Perhaps a bit of 'piano wire' the same size as the hole could serve as a bending tool?

 

[Crasis]

Since it's her camera, send it to Youxin Ye and have him perform a CLA on it. He is good, less expensive and
quicker than others. He can also clean the viewfinder, check the speeds, etc. Should take him two weeks or so.
If it would be your camera you could try to bend it back. At least that's what I would do in your situation.

Roland.

Well, as much as I enjoy sending stuff through customs into the US, I'll refrain from that for now. Avoiding customs is worth at least 100-200 US dollars to me, and that's how much I abhor customs.

Well, thanks for the replies. I'll be calling Kindermann today and seeing how much I get quoted.

 

[clintock]

They charge customs on antique fifth-hand cameras? That's just wrong.
Knowing the service manual states that it can be bent, I'd just try gently to bend it, and if it whacks things, sent it off. The arm is still made and available today.

 

[Crasis]

They charge customs on antique fifth-hand cameras? That's just wrong.
Knowing the service manual states that it can be bent, I'd just try gently to bend it, and if it whacks things, sent it off. The arm is still made and available today.

Don't you know? They charge anything they can. You send it in for repair and they might even charge the poor repair guy tax if they're feeling spiteful 😉

Anyways I've been told by Gerry Smith of Kindermann that "Yeah, you could bend it up but you might throw the rangefinder off in which case you'll probably need to send it to someone to calibrate anyways.". So, looks like I'm going to send it in. If it's as small a problem as I think it is and it can easily be fixed, then I won't bother getting them to overhaul it.

Btw, big props for Gerry Smith. The guy to trust with Leicas in Canada imo, as I've used him before.

Thanks for your replies and I'll just take it as a given that I do not know enough about the internals of the camera, with or without a repair manual 😉

 

[Ronald M]

Send it in. You might break soomething elso.

There are procedures the mount the DR, but I forgot. I think you need to be at minimum focus, but not in the DR close focus mode.

Investigate before you screw it up a second time.