_goodtimez
Well-known
This was my repair of the slpit mirror of my IIIc. Hope this helps:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97029
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97029
Leica IIIa repair - time to call in some help!
- Thread starter Davidhel
- Start date
- Latest activity Latest activity:
- Replies 59
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KoNickon
Nick Merritt
Good for you -- that's great!
Ron (Netherlands)
Well-known
btw this is what I normally do when servicing / repairing a camera: total disassembly in order to be able to get to every small part so it can be cleaned and if necessary lubed (although not seen on these pictures: the spindles are also taken apart):
Leica IIIa sync repair & cla VII by Ron (Netherlands), on Flickr
i
NKDV FED repair & cla XI by Ron (Netherlands), on Flickr
Leica IIIf
FED 2
...I don't put stuff in small boxes like others do, but put everything like above on a sheet more or less in the same manner...I find it easier this way to match the screws with their location in the camera...(sure its also easier to loose them - so nobody may come near the table)
Leica IIIa sync repair & cla VII by Ron (Netherlands), on Flickr
i
NKDV FED repair & cla XI by Ron (Netherlands), on Flickr
Leica IIIf
FED 2
...I don't put stuff in small boxes like others do, but put everything like above on a sheet more or less in the same manner...I find it easier this way to match the screws with their location in the camera...(sure its also easier to loose them - so nobody may come near the table)
Davidhel
Established
Wow - those pics are amazing!...I would love to be able to do that and leave it all out...but I have a 4 year old and two cats. Although I have to say that seeing all the parts of the Leica out like that does remind me a bit of building some of Henrys more advanced star wars lego sets....
The speeds are still great..so it's just that rangefinder vertical allignment that is causing the probs now. I could see straight away that the new mirror was at a slight angle and didn't slot exactly between those two brass rails. I took it out and put the old one back in. That was an improvement (a snug fit), but it's still off. It's not that easy to see which side of the mirror is silvered - I've found I still get the double image which ever way it goes in! Two questions....
1. The vertical allignment prism window that you rotate. Moving either way right now still makes no difference. This is friction fit - does the position of the ring it mounts into make any difference? It didn't want to budge from the body, but I could gently pursue that route....
2. In order to best mount the new beam splitter mirror, would I be better off removing the 3 screws from the tube above? I assume that they hold the mount in place for the beam splitter mirror, so I'm wondering if it would be easier to mount the mirror with that part removed?
I thought the rangefinder was supposed to be the easy bit!!!
The speeds are still great..so it's just that rangefinder vertical allignment that is causing the probs now. I could see straight away that the new mirror was at a slight angle and didn't slot exactly between those two brass rails. I took it out and put the old one back in. That was an improvement (a snug fit), but it's still off. It's not that easy to see which side of the mirror is silvered - I've found I still get the double image which ever way it goes in! Two questions....
1. The vertical allignment prism window that you rotate. Moving either way right now still makes no difference. This is friction fit - does the position of the ring it mounts into make any difference? It didn't want to budge from the body, but I could gently pursue that route....
2. In order to best mount the new beam splitter mirror, would I be better off removing the 3 screws from the tube above? I assume that they hold the mount in place for the beam splitter mirror, so I'm wondering if it would be easier to mount the mirror with that part removed?
I thought the rangefinder was supposed to be the easy bit!!!
HuubL
hunter-gatherer
Hey Ron, I see the top one is of my IIIa-syn. An excellent job you did on it!
Davidhel
Established
Reading back over this thread plus a bit more trial and error and I think I have answered my own questions. I removed the beamsplitter and carefully filed the long edges and the fit is a pretty snug. Vertical alignment was almost there. I focussed at infinity, looked a the moon and managed to get the horizontal alignment spot on. I then went back to the vertical and adjusted the window prism and I finally got movement! But it's not quite enough to get the exact overlap....frustratingly close though!.
So I think all I need to do now is look at those 3 screws above the housing of the beam splitter mirror. I'm assuming the front and back ones will tilt the mirror, and get that vertical alignment spot on? Am I right?...if so I will have completed the longest Leica repair in history...this CLA is coming on for 10 months!!...
So I think all I need to do now is look at those 3 screws above the housing of the beam splitter mirror. I'm assuming the front and back ones will tilt the mirror, and get that vertical alignment spot on? Am I right?...if so I will have completed the longest Leica repair in history...this CLA is coming on for 10 months!!...
Bill Clark
Veteran
This is a very interesting thread. I have learned a lot from the posts here.
An idea, would anyone posting on this thread consider teaching a class on this topic? Help some rangefinder folks!
Just an idea.
I'm going to have to keep my eyes out for a LTM camera I could learn to rebuild.
Thanks everyone.
Responses to help like these is a great help.
An idea, would anyone posting on this thread consider teaching a class on this topic? Help some rangefinder folks!
Just an idea.
I'm going to have to keep my eyes out for a LTM camera I could learn to rebuild.
Thanks everyone.
Responses to help like these is a great help.
Ron (Netherlands)
Well-known
Indeed its yours HuubL and thanks for the fave.
Not quite. First you always have to start with vertical alignment, since the vertical throws off the horizontal but horizontal doesn't throw off vertical 🙂 . So you had to look at the moon again after changing the vertical. Fine vertical alignment is done with the rangefinder prism by turning the round glass. However before doing that you might have to change alignment by turning the big screw on top of the rangefinder holding the mirror housing (there are 3 screws holding the mirror housing) - at least when vertical is quite off after working with the mirrorhousing.
First lesson and advice here is: do not start with a Leica if you have no experience. There is an extensive thread on doing a CLA on a Zorki 4K or Zorki 4: start working on such a $10 camera and you can practice the basics.
Bill Clark
Veteran
Ron, thanks for the advice.
Will do as you suggest.
Will do as you suggest.
Davidhel
Established
Thanks Bill for the encouragement and Ron for the help!
I've done some more work on this tonight. I figured that as the original very very dim mirror showed correct alignment (before I took it out first of all) then the current fault still has to be with the mirror..so I removed it again, filed it, pushed it further along the mount and reattached...and it looks like I now have the correct alignment!. Will let it dry over night...and obviously I am keeping everything crossed!!!
I've done some more work on this tonight. I figured that as the original very very dim mirror showed correct alignment (before I took it out first of all) then the current fault still has to be with the mirror..so I removed it again, filed it, pushed it further along the mount and reattached...and it looks like I now have the correct alignment!. Will let it dry over night...and obviously I am keeping everything crossed!!!
Ron (Netherlands)
Well-known
Sounds very good! indeed in most cases you have to file the mirror before it fits nicely and snug 😉
Davidhel
Established
Job done!!
The mirror replacement was a bit more challenging than I thought it would be! With the cover off I installed the mirror, vertical alignment was spot on, then I fixed the horizontal and put the cover back on, only to find that this shifted the vertical alignment out of range of the adjustment! Another mirror purchased, compensation adjusted for and everything now running great! Repair finally finished!!!
What have I learnt?
Through trial and error (and with a lot of help from all you guys) I now feel confident that I could tackle most repairs on these cameras. The only thing I have yet to do is replace the shutter curtains (I will be tackling this task soon with both the Zorki's)
What's it cost?
In money terms, I've had to purchase a few tools and a couple of mirrors. Other than the mirror, no parts had to be replaced. It's taken a lot of time and patience but I've got a new skill in camera repair...and I will never have to send a screw thread Leica off to a repairer again (fingers crossed!)
Any tips of wisdom?
Don't be scared to tackle one of these. Building up my skills (and confidence) with the two Zorki's though at the same time was a good move.
Be patient, take notes and pictures, ask advice....and enjoy it!..despite the frustrations it has made me want to do further repairs!
The outcome?
Another Leica is given a new lease of life and can once again be enjoyed. Good news for everyone!
Leica IIIa repair complete by David Helmore, on Flickr
The mirror replacement was a bit more challenging than I thought it would be! With the cover off I installed the mirror, vertical alignment was spot on, then I fixed the horizontal and put the cover back on, only to find that this shifted the vertical alignment out of range of the adjustment! Another mirror purchased, compensation adjusted for and everything now running great! Repair finally finished!!!
What have I learnt?
Through trial and error (and with a lot of help from all you guys) I now feel confident that I could tackle most repairs on these cameras. The only thing I have yet to do is replace the shutter curtains (I will be tackling this task soon with both the Zorki's)
What's it cost?
In money terms, I've had to purchase a few tools and a couple of mirrors. Other than the mirror, no parts had to be replaced. It's taken a lot of time and patience but I've got a new skill in camera repair...and I will never have to send a screw thread Leica off to a repairer again (fingers crossed!)
Any tips of wisdom?
Don't be scared to tackle one of these. Building up my skills (and confidence) with the two Zorki's though at the same time was a good move.
Be patient, take notes and pictures, ask advice....and enjoy it!..despite the frustrations it has made me want to do further repairs!
The outcome?
Another Leica is given a new lease of life and can once again be enjoyed. Good news for everyone!
Leica IIIa repair complete by David Helmore, on Flickr
HuubL
hunter-gatherer
Congratulations! Looks like a fine camera to use! Enjoy shooting with it.
Ron (Netherlands)
Well-known
Congrats indeed! Would love to see some test shots.
Davidhel
Established
Thanks all - much appreciated!!
Emory
Newbie
Leica III - slow speed problem in horizontal position
Leica III - slow speed problem in horizontal position
This is my first posting. Great forum!
Thanks to the excellent advice offered in this forum, I was able to get the slow speeds on my beloved Leica III (serial number 141351) working like a charm.
The slow speeds all work in any position the camera is held -- with one exception:
In the horizontal (landscape) position, the camera behaves as though it were on "Z" (bulb): The shutter stays open as long as the shutter release button is pushed, closes again only when I let go of the shutter button.
Pushing on the slow speed lifter spring and/or the flat release spring at the bottom often helps. After "fiddling around" with the springs a bit, I can get the slow speeds to work in the horizontal position for dozens and dozens of exposures. But the next morning, after one or two correct exposures, the shutter will once again revert to the "Z" (bulb) behavior.
One note: even when the slow speeds are functioning properly, after letting go of the shutter release button, it often takes a moment before the flat release spring springs back with a slight single or double "clack." (I have tried loosening the screws slightly, then minutely changing the position, but to no avail.)
I am reluctant to take the camera apart. (Although all the external screws appear to be OK, I cannot get the one on the slow speed dial to budge. That means I would not be able to remove the body sleeve.) Is there any way of solving the problem from the bottom of the camera or through the lens mount)?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Leica III - slow speed problem in horizontal position
This is my first posting. Great forum!
Thanks to the excellent advice offered in this forum, I was able to get the slow speeds on my beloved Leica III (serial number 141351) working like a charm.
The slow speeds all work in any position the camera is held -- with one exception:
In the horizontal (landscape) position, the camera behaves as though it were on "Z" (bulb): The shutter stays open as long as the shutter release button is pushed, closes again only when I let go of the shutter button.
Pushing on the slow speed lifter spring and/or the flat release spring at the bottom often helps. After "fiddling around" with the springs a bit, I can get the slow speeds to work in the horizontal position for dozens and dozens of exposures. But the next morning, after one or two correct exposures, the shutter will once again revert to the "Z" (bulb) behavior.
One note: even when the slow speeds are functioning properly, after letting go of the shutter release button, it often takes a moment before the flat release spring springs back with a slight single or double "clack." (I have tried loosening the screws slightly, then minutely changing the position, but to no avail.)
I am reluctant to take the camera apart. (Although all the external screws appear to be OK, I cannot get the one on the slow speed dial to budge. That means I would not be able to remove the body sleeve.) Is there any way of solving the problem from the bottom of the camera or through the lens mount)?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Davidhel
Established
Welcome to the forum!
My gut feeling is that I think the slow speed mechanism needs more of a clean - when doing this I've always removed the casing..and that slow speed dial..
For the ones I fixed I took that mechanism out and soaked it in lighter fuel for 24 hours...
Good luck and stick with it!
My gut feeling is that I think the slow speed mechanism needs more of a clean - when doing this I've always removed the casing..and that slow speed dial..
For the ones I fixed I took that mechanism out and soaked it in lighter fuel for 24 hours...
Good luck and stick with it!
Emory
Newbie
Thanks for the friendly welcome and the quick reply, Dave.
I had soaked the slow speed escapement mechanism for over 24 hours in two baths, dried it and oiled very sparingly. It purrs like a kitten, and in any position but the horizontal one, slow speeds (even 1 second) are precise and consistent.
So I suspect the problem lies elsewhere.
I know this will make any experienced repair person shudder, but I have tried inserting part of a clasp from a manila envelope underneath the flat release spring to exert pressure on the slow speed lifter spring (see photo) -- and this works for many exposures. But after several hours, the camera reverts to the "Z" (bulb) behavior (but only when held horizontally).
I'm hoping the problem can be solved by a small adjustment without taking the camera apart. I still can't get the screw on the slow speed dial to budge so I can't remove the body sleeve anyway. Does anybody have an idea?
Happy Easter to all!
I had soaked the slow speed escapement mechanism for over 24 hours in two baths, dried it and oiled very sparingly. It purrs like a kitten, and in any position but the horizontal one, slow speeds (even 1 second) are precise and consistent.
So I suspect the problem lies elsewhere.
I know this will make any experienced repair person shudder, but I have tried inserting part of a clasp from a manila envelope underneath the flat release spring to exert pressure on the slow speed lifter spring (see photo) -- and this works for many exposures. But after several hours, the camera reverts to the "Z" (bulb) behavior (but only when held horizontally).
I'm hoping the problem can be solved by a small adjustment without taking the camera apart. I still can't get the screw on the slow speed dial to budge so I can't remove the body sleeve anyway. Does anybody have an idea?
Happy Easter to all!
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Davidhel
Established
I understand your frustration!...
I am a bit out of the 'repair zone' right now as I've been focussing on getting out and using them..the IIIa (and IIIc) still work great! In your position right now, here's what I would do...
1. Get Thomas Thomasy's Leica repair handbook. There are also some really good online texts too..but that book is what I kept going back to.
2. Re-read this post...for me Dez especially posted some real 'light bulb' moments..check out post 20 onwards. The issue you have could be with that spring (next to where you have wedged the envelope)...this easily comes off with a couple of screws...
3. That body cover really should come off so you can properly clean and lubricate inside. The 'stanley' screw drivers should be able to get that 'awkward' slow speed one moving (you could even file the end of the srewdriver to make it narrower if you need to). Not sure what screw drivers you are using, but I have always found the 'jewelers' type quite fiddly!
4. The IIIa had a lot of issues...but the IIIc (from memory) had a very similar issue. After cleaning inside, 1 drop of watch oil (applied with a syringe) at the top of the second curtain roller (being really careful to avoid all contact with curtain) fixed the issue. Ultimately I did the same for the IIIa and it helped that too...
5. Wait to hear if any of the more 'experienced' repairers respond!!...I have fixed 2...but still have much more to learn!!
Good luck!
I am a bit out of the 'repair zone' right now as I've been focussing on getting out and using them..the IIIa (and IIIc) still work great! In your position right now, here's what I would do...
1. Get Thomas Thomasy's Leica repair handbook. There are also some really good online texts too..but that book is what I kept going back to.
2. Re-read this post...for me Dez especially posted some real 'light bulb' moments..check out post 20 onwards. The issue you have could be with that spring (next to where you have wedged the envelope)...this easily comes off with a couple of screws...
3. That body cover really should come off so you can properly clean and lubricate inside. The 'stanley' screw drivers should be able to get that 'awkward' slow speed one moving (you could even file the end of the srewdriver to make it narrower if you need to). Not sure what screw drivers you are using, but I have always found the 'jewelers' type quite fiddly!
4. The IIIa had a lot of issues...but the IIIc (from memory) had a very similar issue. After cleaning inside, 1 drop of watch oil (applied with a syringe) at the top of the second curtain roller (being really careful to avoid all contact with curtain) fixed the issue. Ultimately I did the same for the IIIa and it helped that too...
5. Wait to hear if any of the more 'experienced' repairers respond!!...I have fixed 2...but still have much more to learn!!
Good luck!
Emory
Newbie
Thanks for your tips, Dave. I'll keep on trying.
Maybe some of the other members of the forum might have an idea or two for me...
For the record, I use a 2.4mm jeweler's screwdriver which fits every screw in the Leica I have tried so far like a glove. I have even tried applying a tiny amount of WD-40 (probably a no-no) to the screw on the slow speed dial and letting it seep in overnight, but I still can't get it to budge.
Have fun taking pictures with your Barnacks! (I find that the Summar gives my photos a look that no other lens can match.)
Kind regards from Europe to Down Under!
🙂
Maybe some of the other members of the forum might have an idea or two for me...
For the record, I use a 2.4mm jeweler's screwdriver which fits every screw in the Leica I have tried so far like a glove. I have even tried applying a tiny amount of WD-40 (probably a no-no) to the screw on the slow speed dial and letting it seep in overnight, but I still can't get it to budge.
Have fun taking pictures with your Barnacks! (I find that the Summar gives my photos a look that no other lens can match.)
Kind regards from Europe to Down Under!
🙂
