karlori
Digital Refugee
Hi,
After getting my first Leica the M7 and falling in love with the rangefinder experience i came across a beaten and scuffed M3 on ebay for a pretty low price.
I sold my Gibson a few weeks ago and the money was just itching so i got the "Icon".
But this is not an impulse buy, i have been thinking about makin my M7 into a "panda" with the parts available from DAG and on Ebay but the camera is just too beautiful as is .
So i need some ideas, i know i need the clamps to pull the camera apart i will be getting the Zhou Cla set. Now how to strip the paint from the camera ? ( acid technique or grit paper and reverse electrolysis ? ) With what do you fill engravings, same thing as with cars ? Something other ? It's lower than one million SN single stroke so i will not be damaging a collectors item
... As far as the camera covering is concerned i will be getting a kit from CameraLeather ...
I am thinking about a repaint with an original Porsche paint close to a model produced the same year as the camera if not i have means of obtaining Lamborghini PPG OEM paints so in some Lambo colors
Where can i get CLA manuals for the M3 so I do not mess up the reassembly?
What are the caveats i need to know before starting ? All tips and ideas are more than welcomed !
( I am not completely clueless about airbrushing or powdercoating and have access to the tools needed)
*** This will be the thread where I will post updates and step by step progress ***
After getting my first Leica the M7 and falling in love with the rangefinder experience i came across a beaten and scuffed M3 on ebay for a pretty low price.
I sold my Gibson a few weeks ago and the money was just itching so i got the "Icon".
But this is not an impulse buy, i have been thinking about makin my M7 into a "panda" with the parts available from DAG and on Ebay but the camera is just too beautiful as is .
So i need some ideas, i know i need the clamps to pull the camera apart i will be getting the Zhou Cla set. Now how to strip the paint from the camera ? ( acid technique or grit paper and reverse electrolysis ? ) With what do you fill engravings, same thing as with cars ? Something other ? It's lower than one million SN single stroke so i will not be damaging a collectors item
... As far as the camera covering is concerned i will be getting a kit from CameraLeather ... I am thinking about a repaint with an original Porsche paint close to a model produced the same year as the camera if not i have means of obtaining Lamborghini PPG OEM paints so in some Lambo colors
Where can i get CLA manuals for the M3 so I do not mess up the reassembly?
What are the caveats i need to know before starting ? All tips and ideas are more than welcomed !
( I am not completely clueless about airbrushing or powdercoating and have access to the tools needed)
*** This will be the thread where I will post updates and step by step progress ***
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Mudman
Well-known
If you have a paint (i.e Black paint M3) I wouldn't strip it. If it's a chrome dealeo, the process can be hard to do from what I've been told. a silver smith would know the correct method of electrolysis to remove the chrome and leave the brass.
karlori
Digital Refugee
Its a chrome with 8## ### serial... Pretty scuffed ...
Vickko
Veteran
There are lots of thread in the internet for "repainting or black painting Leica" cameras.
There is even a person here who does it, here is his web site:
http://restoration35.com/leica/
Step 1: take the camera apart. Tomosy has books on this (google it). Fargo tools has the tools, or Zhou (ebay).
Step 2: strip the chrome. Muriatic / hydrochloric acid will do it
Step 3: strip the nickel. This is tricky, but this is intriguing:
http://www.caswellplating.com/kits/metalx.html
Otherwise you have to reverse-electrolysis the nickel off.
Step 4: deal with the engraving and bumps
Step 5: paint it black
Step 6: fill the engraving with white
Step 7: reassemble the camera
Simple, right?
Vick
There is even a person here who does it, here is his web site:
http://restoration35.com/leica/
Step 1: take the camera apart. Tomosy has books on this (google it). Fargo tools has the tools, or Zhou (ebay).
Step 2: strip the chrome. Muriatic / hydrochloric acid will do it
Step 3: strip the nickel. This is tricky, but this is intriguing:
http://www.caswellplating.com/kits/metalx.html
Otherwise you have to reverse-electrolysis the nickel off.
Step 4: deal with the engraving and bumps
Step 5: paint it black
Step 6: fill the engraving with white
Step 7: reassemble the camera
Simple, right?
Vick
karlori
Digital Refugee
Thanks for the links... I found some on Nemeng website... I do not plan on painting it black I would try to make it as unique as possible while still retaining good taste and not making it a catastrophe.
Debusti Paolo
Well-known
there should be also in England named Luton ....
karlori
Digital Refugee
I know about both CRR Luton and Shintaro but I want a DIY project, its winter cant really dive or go out and do something... So between classes and learning I have some spare time i would like to fill with something and this seems like a good idea...
john neal
fallor ergo sum
I would suggest you leave the nickel on - it gives the paint something to stick to. Of course, if you want the totally brassed look in a few months, take the nickel off too.
karlori
Digital Refugee
I did take off the nickel too.
Gotta say, my camera always was easy to locate, just followed the paint flakes trail...
(You read that correct, I'm advising against it, it's near impossible to make the paint stick to the brass.)
There's quite some threads on the subject on RFF, but you gotta look for them through Google, because the RFF-native search is cr*p. Use "site:www.rangefinderforum.com <insert search term here>" to get specific results.
I search all VB forums like this :bang: paid software yeah right...
I plan to remove the nickel, I know that adhesion is a problem with painting brass, but I will sand the brass a bit and fill the scuffs and then use spray primers like these http://www.nwepaints.co.uk/acatalog/PrimersGalvanised.html , sand the primer and do a few coatings with the paint, fill in the engravings with arylic paint , lightly wet-sand with 2000grit paper and then apply a clearcoat and polish lightly.
I will talk a bit with a friend, about the plan before starting- he spraypaints cars and does artwork so he should give me some workable ideas...
250swb
Well-known
Paint adhesion is not a problem with brass, or how else do/did Leica manage it? No, its people who have had their own problems that try to turn it into a universal truth by way of an urban myth. I often need to paint brass for my work and its no worse or better than any other metal for keeping the paint on.
Paint choice, surface preparation, and care and attention to de-greasing the surface are all important for a good finish that won't be any less robust than an original black finish. But one thing is certain, you need to get the chrome off(nickel is part of the plating process and is under the chrome and will come off at the same time) because black satin paint will not stick to that very well.
If you can't go to the trouble of getting the chrome off you could perhaps try for something like a grey Hammertone finish? The paint won't exactly stick any better, but when it does chip it may not be as ugly as chrome showing through to black.
Steve
Paint choice, surface preparation, and care and attention to de-greasing the surface are all important for a good finish that won't be any less robust than an original black finish. But one thing is certain, you need to get the chrome off(nickel is part of the plating process and is under the chrome and will come off at the same time) because black satin paint will not stick to that very well.
If you can't go to the trouble of getting the chrome off you could perhaps try for something like a grey Hammertone finish? The paint won't exactly stick any better, but when it does chip it may not be as ugly as chrome showing through to black.
Steve
Kim Coxon
Moderator
I wouldn't use anu of those products. You do need a good tching type primer for brass even with very good cleaning. A bit like aluminium, as soon as you finish cleaning it, it will start to tarnish and it is this that causes the problems. You also need something which is very "fine" so as not to hide any of the detail. Ideally, you should use a 2 pack etch primer but I have used single pack to good effect.
These are the sort of products you will need. (The paint is excellent as well)
http://www.phoenix-paints.co.uk/varnish.asp
Kim
These are the sort of products you will need. (The paint is excellent as well
)http://www.phoenix-paints.co.uk/varnish.asp
Kim
Pirate
Guitar playing Fotografer
I want to make an M3 with a Brass top and bottom plate. Maybe a clear-coat on them, but that's all. I love the way they look with the Black and Gold, and a Black Lens. That's going to be my next Leica project.
karlori
Digital Refugee
Great !
One more thing I wish to get cleared is the film back brass or aluminium ? Can I remove the film reminder and fill in the gaps with the same material i would fill the bumps ? And completely cover the door with new leather ?
Or should I just paint the door from the outside, recover the leather and forget about any other work needed on the film door ? I completely forgot about this :bang:
...normclarke
normclarke
Hi,
The back is an alloy of aluminium and will paint easier than brass. I have had some success with brass stripped to the base metal and then coated with Brass Black from Birchwood Casey. This gave a good base for acrylic satin aerosol paint cured under a 60 watt bulb. Too much paint will leave the engravings difficult to pick out with paint stick.
Best,
normclarke
The back is an alloy of aluminium and will paint easier than brass. I have had some success with brass stripped to the base metal and then coated with Brass Black from Birchwood Casey. This gave a good base for acrylic satin aerosol paint cured under a 60 watt bulb. Too much paint will leave the engravings difficult to pick out with paint stick.
Best,
normclarke
karlori
Digital Refugee
Sure ! I will photograph every step of the way and i plan to do a small timelapse video of my workspace ...
I am having second toughs about removing the film reminder, I'm once again looking at the auction photos and the film reminder seems to be in mint condition... Other thing I'd ask, the two "bumpers" on the upper part of the door, are they rubber, plastic or metal ?
I am having second toughs about removing the film reminder, I'm once again looking at the auction photos and the film reminder seems to be in mint condition... Other thing I'd ask, the two "bumpers" on the upper part of the door, are they rubber, plastic or metal ?
normclarke
normclarke
Plastic.
Best
normclarke
Best
normclarke
karlori
Digital Refugee
Any place that i can order 2 new ones ? Been to DAG website can't really find anything but flash and sync plugs.
250swb
Well-known
No I don't need to check previous threads, ignorance can be thwarted at any point in a discussion. For a Leica's chrome finish the brass is first nickel plated, and then chrome plated, nickel being a warm silver finish, chrome being a bright or satin high silver finish. Nickel will tarnish with the slightest touch, chrome won't. But its needed to make the chrome stick. When a black body was painted it never had a nickel undercoat, or it would show through as silver when the black wears off. Nobody see's silver when the black wears off with old Leica's, so where is the nickel?
Oh, and the back door is pressed steel, not aluminium, thats why it can rust.
Steve
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john neal
fallor ergo sum
Steve,
I think we all take your point about original black bodies not being nickle plated in the factory. Unfortunately, when it comes to home painting, none of us have access to the original Leica formulation for paint, or the clean room conditions handle bare brass and successfully apply it.
I looked very hard at trying to find either a stoving enamel or an acidic paint formula that would accurately reproduce the original finish on black Barnack bodies, but it defeated the brains at one of europe's leading paint manufacturers, they eventually suggested leaving the nickle on - who am I to argue?
I think we all take your point about original black bodies not being nickle plated in the factory. Unfortunately, when it comes to home painting, none of us have access to the original Leica formulation for paint, or the clean room conditions handle bare brass and successfully apply it.
I looked very hard at trying to find either a stoving enamel or an acidic paint formula that would accurately reproduce the original finish on black Barnack bodies, but it defeated the brains at one of europe's leading paint manufacturers, they eventually suggested leaving the nickle on - who am I to argue?
Mister E
Well-known
I'm not sure what Leica used on their black paint cameras, but Nikon certainly has brass covered with nickel and then black paint. I've seen it on my Nikon F and an original black SP. That is probably why Nikon's paint lasted so well and Leica's flaked off within days.
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