Leica M4 or Leica M4-2?

Leica M4 or Leica M4-2?

  • Leica M4

    Votes: 271 76.3%

  • Leica M4-2

    Votes: 84 23.7%
  • Total voters
    355
It's true: Steve has my M4-2, a good deal for a good friend on a great camera. The M4-2 is a sleeper, minme was terrific, and a bargain in a modern Leica meterless M camera. When I woke up this morning I did not miss my M4-2, because I know I will see it next time I see Steve.
 
I have an M4-P and an M2 and the difference is more noticeable than I thought it would be. Does it bother me tremendously or in daily use? No. Would I trade the M4-P for another M2/M3/M4? Gladly.

If I wasn't sick of buying, selling, and reading about gear instead of actually using it I'd sell the M4-P and pick up an M4 or another M2 to accompany it.

What really takes the cake and is the only real "deal breaker" for me is the seldom mentioned fact that the PC Sync on the M4-P/M4-2 is an unusable piece of crap. I wanted two cameras that could be used interchangeably so I wouldn't have a "favorite camera." Thanks to the poor construction of the pc sync on the M4-P it is more likely to get left at home.
 
SolaresLarrave said:
YOu got Bob's M4-2, Steve? Lucky man... It looked pretty and clean.
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Yes, it's true, as Bob says. I succumbed to temptation. But it is a really clean M4-2, and even more of a bargain b/c it doesn't need any work done.

I've bolted my Rokkor-M 40/2 on it, and will likely take it w/ me to Vienna and Salzburg in December.

Now I have to decide what to sell...

Anyone in need of a Summitar, CLA'd last year by Sherry K., w/ all the trimmings? (barn door shade, adapter to 39mm, UV filter)
 
If you spotted a black paint M4 (1246xxx SN), costing just US$1900, but had a slow 1s and a scratch on the top plate, would you bag it? Everything else is in working order, though.

Is there really any significance to the 1s speed even if you don't use it? I know it's supposed to be one the first tests when buying a camera.
 
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I picked up the patina'd M4-2 here that was selling a month or so ago. Sold my 1958 M2 for a song to a fellow RFF'r in Toronto who's doing a major CLA to clean it up. One of my main reasons for selling was I was sometimes shooting 5-10 rolls at shoots. The slow rewind on the M2 was causing some soreness on my thumb fingers from rewinding. if this wasn't a problem, I would've kept it. Though, I do prefer the M4-2 in terms of practicality for my style of shooting. I had an M4-P and sold it to Thomas above, but honestly I didn't like the big red dot. This M4-2 is nice, black and brassy.
 
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Bingley said:
Just purchased a lovely M4-2 from a member here (thanks, Bob!). For all the bad press about this being a "cheapened" M, this particular camera is as smooth as my M2, and the VF is bright and clear. Here's to Canadian Leicas!
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+1 ....😉
Its a Fantastic Camera & I bounce between an Black Canadian M4 & the M4-2
Cheers to the Canadian Versions !
 
helenhill said:
+1 ....😉
Its a Fantastic Camera & I bounce between an Black Canadian M4 & the M4-2
Cheers to the Canadian Versions !
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Actually, a triplet of a black-chrome M4, M4-2, and M4-P would be my favorite "Leica collection" for actual using ... 😎

Well ... I have an black-chrome M7 instead of the M4, though ... 😱
 
i've had an M3, an M2, an M4-P, an M6 Classic and now a black paint M4 (my dream camera). the M4 is the nicest of all of them in operation, maybe because Don gave it a proper overhaul. the M6 VF flared badly, the M2 and M3 VF's where a bit dimmer than the others and the M4 is a lot smoother than all of them - especially the shutterspeed dial which turns with little persuasion from my index finger and clicks firmly into place - i've found changing shutterspeeds with the camera to my eye an absolute joy - where with every other Leica i've had it took more force and wasn't as responsive (even after a Y Ye CLA on the M4-P, after a fall broke something in the RF mechanism).

The M4 winds a hell of a lot smoother and nicer as well, and the shutter is the most silent of all the Leica's I've had too - I also much prefer the more accurate frame lines in the M4 (accurate RF frame lines? ha). I also find the RF second image clearer and more "snappy" than with any of the other Leica's, even if recently serviced and cleaned - or a new RF mechanism put in the M4-P, this M4 still wins for me! I suspect it has had a good life, well used and not abused and that use has probably contributed to the feel of the camera in operation, sufficiently "broken in" 🙂

YMMV however.
 
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Hey...let's meet up when I am in Sydney for Xmas. I got BP M6 LHSA. I will make you regret slagging off the M6 and buying that M4. You'll be salivating when you see my baby.
 
anaanda said:
Hi ALL,
I have been out of the RF game for a while shooting with my Hasselblad, but looking to pick up Leica. I've decided on one one these. The M4 or the M4-2.What are your thoughts? I know the M4 is more expensive but is it really a better camera is the question I am asking?
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With the same choice in mind last summer, I went for an M4-2. It's a first production run example that has the M4 viewfinder optics (in the second run they changed the viewfinder optics to brighten the framelines).

The M4-2 is functionally identical to the M4 other than for the self timer (none on the M4-2) and for the hot shoe flash contact (none for the M4). The hot shoe is much more important to me than a self timer.

(The two cameras have many other differences internally ... the M4 was the last of the "old school" way of assembling Leica Ms, the M4-2 was the first of the "new school". But a good example of either, properly maintained, feels and works identically.)

This M4-2 was marked BGN at KEH. When it arrived, I was delighted to see that I'd have rated it VG+ cosmetically. The rangefinder was out of alignment and KEH offered to take it back and have it adjusted, but I opted to have my local Leica technician do the adjustment and test the shutter at the same time. He did a perfect job on the rangefinder and found the shutter is slightly off at 1/500 and 1/1000 second, not enough to matter to me for the moment. At about $800 total including the service work, I'm completely happy with it and it works perfectly for my needs.

The M4 and M4-2 includes framelines for 35, 50, 90 and 135 mm lenses in a .72x magnification viewfinder. I prefer this viewfinder to the later six frameline models as I could never see the 28mm frames with my glasses on anyway, and the earlier viewfinder optics are also better for people with glasses (more eye relief, and not so fussy about exactly where your eye is located to see the frames ... later ones are brighter but take more work to position your eye properly).
 
Godfrey said:
~ snip ~ and the earlier viewfinder optics are also better for people with glasses (more eye relief, and not so fussy about exactly where your eye is located to see the frames ... later ones are brighter but take more work to position your eye properly).
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Interesting finding / statement. Also from my experience the earlier VF are easier to use for people wearing glasses but lack some contrast of the RF patch / frame lines.
 
roboflick said:
DAG
is the only person on earth I would trust my Leica with, he does an excellent job and stands behind his work. The key to getting your camera back in a timely manner is getting him on the phone, and putting a date that you want the camera back in your letter with the camera. He is overwhelmingly busy for good reason. He overhauled my grandmother's M3 that hadnt been used in 30 years and returned a buttery smooth like new camera. He also upgraded my M6ttl finder and advance lever to the m3 style, he adjusted the speeds for no extra cost while it was with him(what others would call a CLA). In my opinion he undercharges for the quality of work that he does.
Nik
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There are many who do good work on Leicas.
 
Hi Celia,

Nooo! The M4-2/M6 plastic flash block tends to crack do to the use of heavy flash units and /or age - small plastic bits tend to get in the shutter mechanism and jam the camera😱.

Regards,
Robert
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FS: Hand Made Leather Camera Wrist Straps

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/phot...-straps/cat/12

Celia said:
M4-2 envy... Would you have your M4 fitted with a live hot shoe to get the best of both?
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Godfrey said:
With the same choice in mind last summer, I went for an M4-2. It's a first production run example that has the M4 viewfinder optics (in the second run they changed the viewfinder optics to brighten the framelines).

The M4 and M4-2 includes framelines for 35, 50, 90 and 135 mm lenses in a .72x magnification viewfinder. I prefer this viewfinder to the later six frameline models as I could never see the 28mm frames with my glasses on anyway, and the earlier viewfinder optics are also better for people with glasses (more eye relief, and not so fussy about exactly where your eye is located to see the frames ... later ones are brighter but take more work to position your eye properly).
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Interesting. Is there any downside to the change in optics used?

Also, I didn't realise before that the older frameline set up was a bit nicer for glasses wearers. Curious as to how though, is it just the thicker further calibrated framelines or something else?
 
foolproof said:
Interesting. Is there any downside to the change in optics used?

Also, I didn't realise before that the older frameline set up was a bit nicer for glasses wearers. Curious as to how though, is it just the thicker further calibrated framelines or something else?
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The viewfinder optical change brightened the framelines. However, it also introduced some flare and narrowed the exit pupil of the viewfinder ocular so you have to position your eye more carefully to see the framelines evenly illuminated, which becomes problematic with glasses.

The framelines aren't "better" or "worse" to my eye: the M4-2's simpler frameline setup just makes looking through the viewfinder a cleaner experience to me. Only one frame for 50 and 90mm, a double frame for 35/135. Coupled with the wider exit pupil, it's a more relaxed view.
 
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