Leica M9 and M9-P prices $1.500 down!

[Lss]

And speaking to that point, the menu structure is a memorizable pattern, so while it may be annoying, it can still be performed.

As long as you make no mistake. The "problem" is it defaults to the last used item in the menu, not to beginning of menu.

 

[BobYIL]

Have you experienced any shortage of spares with the classical Leicas like the M2, M3 and M4? I have not.. was always able to find a NOS or rarely used replacement; actually most of the time could not detect any objectionable wear on the used parts I received. You change the broken part and your camera is ready to face another two-three decades. From this regard Leitz or Leica was exemplary all the time..

 

[EdwardKaraa]

Let me ask a question, I'm just curious: how many of you M8 and M8.2 users are the original owners?

Also, for how long do you still plan to use them?

 

[hteasley]

Personally, I don't see what Leica can do, other than find a buyer.

Folks have said that before. Their brand is powerful. They can likely weather the existence of the X100 and RX1.

 

[Lss]

Let me ask a question, I'm just curious: how many of you M8 and M8.2 users are the original owners?

Also, for how long do you still plan to use them?

I am the third owner.

I will use this camera until I am able to upgrade to something that I find significantly better for my photography (there is no such thing on the market today) or something that would do much the same as this camera but I would simply like better (such as a full frame M).

 

[GaryLH]

Only if it's startlingly custom. Did these screens have some radical configuration? An ultra custom pinout connection that can't be refitted somehow? Even if Leica used some crazy space-saving design at the time, things like LCD screens have only gotten smaller and thinner and less consumptive. It wouldn't, I'm guessing (without knowledge of circumstance), be a staggeringly expensive feat of engineering.

These sorts of components tend to follow similar standards. It's just surprising, that's all.

Can't answer specifically for the LCD on the Leica camera, not in that industry...

I will give u an example of what happened to one of the products I worked on instead. A certain type of memory we used for packet memory went end of life from both sources of the part and we were offered a last time buy on it. Same thing happened to a power pc embedded processor part.

In both cases so far after we ran out of that part were we lucky to find what we needed on the gray market. We had to pay a lot more than before for those parts.

But given the way Leica handled the situation from that email it sure sounds like they went down the same road as our product line managers. Third party oem do not want tie up manufacturing lines for old parts and I really don't blame them...

Plus on the our side the other issue is related to what happens for new part
- qualifying the new part thru our standards process
- qualifying it thru our quality retest
- new SW drivers for the part
- change to the manufacturing bom


So at end of day for Leica it was a business decision based on how much of money they want to loose to keep your business.

Gary

 

[EdwardKaraa]

I am the third owner.

I will use this camera until I am able to upgrade to something that I find significantly better for my photography (there is no such thing on the market today) or something that would do much the same as this camera but I would simply like better (such as a full frame M).

Are you concerned that the IQ of the camera will suffer with age and use? I mean you do have M lenses, very expensive glass that gives you the best quality. I don't know the exact details as I'm not an engineer, but the performance of electronics suffers from aging. Sensors develop bad pixels, CFA dyes start to fade, sensor cover develops micro scratches from cleaning, and starts to fog. The camera circuitry looses quite a bit of its efficiency.

As for being the 3rd owner, Leica does not allow the transfer of the warranty (I used to believe otherwise, not sure if this was changed recently) so I am pretty sure they had such situations in mind like unavailable parts when they made the rules.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Can you explain please Roger?
If a company has no integrity and cannot service or repair it's products then it's certainly not going to last too long unless funded by wealthy individuals who do not care about value or people buying into a myth! .......and they can probably only afford it once!
How are you honestly going to feel if your camera breaks and they have no parts? Maybe just throw another pile of cash at another?
It's just not acceptable to me for a company to operate like this.
It would appear, judging by some comments that it is acceptable for some others. Maybe their cameras haven't broken. I hope the majority who own them don't find out the hard way.
If Porsche had adopted this kind of mentality how long would people buy their cars for? not long I'd bet.
Same for the old Leica. Parts available and a solid product that had longevity. It's not the company it was and it never will be again.

Highlight 1: see highlights 2 and 3.

You have your premises, and are unlikely to change them.

Highlight 4: the 356 was a notorious rot-box.

Cheers,

R.

 

[GaryLH]

Highlight 4: the 356 was a notorious rot-box.

Cheers,

R.

Yep 356 was a rot box. My cousin had one that he bought used... He found out the hard way after he owned it for a while and started to look closer 🙁

There is also the infamous engine bolts issue.. I cannot remember right now which period it covered, but I think maybe around the 80's. The issue was related to tensile strength was not respec'd high enough when they made the piston bores bigger in their new engine. One of my co-worker had that problem on his 911, he ended up,spending a lot of money getting it resolved. He was second owner.

Gary

 

[Lss]

Are you concerned that the IQ of the camera will suffer with age and use?

Not really. The sensor will develop more dead pixels, it may exhibit worse issues some day. I will deal with such things when they actually happen. The M8 is not the oldest digital camera I have.

 

[Ben Z]

Have you gentlemen seen Stefan Daniel's statement regarding serviceability of M8/M8.2 displays and Leica's action to ensure future support for the M9? You may find it reassuring: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/customer-forum/252700-serviceability-m8-m8-2-displays.html

Yes I've seen and read it, and I don't find it the least bit reassuring. It says to the effect they're trying to keep the M9 supported for 10 years, but if they run into a parts shortage, like they did with the M8, they'll offer the same horribly expensive upgrade program. What to find reassuring about that?

 

[Ben Z]

I thought we'd moved on from that screen situation? It's Leica's call and we either accept or reject their decision.

I'll bet my house that they don't let that type of situation affect the M9's future ... they're not that stupid to make the same mistake twice IMO. 😀

Was that smiley face because you're being tongue-in cheek, or did you forget about the DMR?

 

[EdwardKaraa]

Not really. The sensor will develop more dead pixels, it may exhibit worse issues some day. I will deal with such things when they actually happen. The M8 is not the oldest digital camera I have.

The CFA dyes fading is a serious issue with older sensors. It does affect image quality, but maybe not enough for you to see it unless you make a side by side comparison.

My point is, electronics are designed to be discarded after a few years of use. An M3 is as good as the film you put in it, but an M8 does not suffer only from being close to obsolete (I know the obsoloteness is arguable) but its gradually loosing its performance and image quality. That's quite serious imo.

 

[dpredie]

Only if it's startlingly custom. Did these screens have some radical configuration? An ultra custom pinout connection that can't be refitted somehow? Even if Leica used some crazy space-saving design at the time, things like LCD screens have only gotten smaller and thinner and less consumptive. It wouldn't, I'm guessing (without knowledge of circumstance), be a staggeringly expensive feat of engineering.

These sorts of components tend to follow similar standards. It's just surprising, that's all.

so technically we can fit it with some AMOLED capacitive touch screen

 

[Ben Z]

If Porsche had adopted this kind of mentality how long would people buy their cars for? not long I'd bet.

I've got a complete aversion to gambling but that's a bet I'm tempted to take😀 Google "Porsche IMS bearing failure". Hasn't seemed to put much of a dent in their sales. As with Leica, there are people who remain vociferously loyal to Porsche no matter what obnoxious, arrogant crap the company pulls on them. (BTW I own one Porsche and numerous Leicas including an M9 and before that an M8, so don't even bother trying to dismiss me as a basher with no dog in the fight).

 

[Lss]

My point is, electronics are designed to be discarded after a few years of use. An M3 is as good as the film you put in it, but an M8 does not suffer only from being close to obsolete (I know the obsoloteness is arguable) but its gradually loosing its performance and image quality. That's quite serious imo.

You can upgrade every month if you feel there is an issue. I just look at the results, and worry when I have a reason to worry.

 

[nobbylon]

Highlight 1: see highlights 2 and 3.

You have your premises, and are unlikely to change them.

Highlight 4: the 356 was a notorious rot-box.

Cheers,

R.

Ill quite happily change my viewpoint if Leica actually stood by their product and didn't adopt the attitude 'it's broke, that's tough, give us more money for the latest model'.
Judging by the experiences and viewpoints of others in regard to this issue, I am not alone with my thoughts.
As I said earlier, I was offered an m8.2 and could have had a choice of m8's at bargain prices and said cameras would probably have given great service however in the event that a problem occured with the monitor issue then the reality is a camera reduced to a guessing game and a lot less than 100% functional due to lack of customer support. Why this is acceptable to anyone is beyond reason given the marketing and purchase price of the camera.
With regard to your 356 comment, as you well know, most cars from that era CAN be rot boxes dependant on where they have been driven and looked after. My friend has a mint 356 sc and without renovation is in pretty much the same condition it left the factory and yes, one can still buy all parts for it to function as intended.
What is your defence of this issue anyway given that Leica have already admitted to NO parts available? Are you just hoping nothing goes wrong with yours or have you accepted your digi M's as potential disposables or semi functioning cameras?
If I'd paid retail for an M8 and ended up with this issue I'd be furious. I sold my M9 a while ago, no regrets but one has to ask the question if the same fate awaits them too?

 

[EdwardKaraa]

You can upgrade every month if you feel there is an issue. I just look at the results, and worry when I have a reason to worry.

Certainly I have no issue with that. It's your decision to keep on using your old camera until it breaks down, so you know exactly what you're doing. But I'm a bit confused about other owners who know their cameras are old, but still expect Leica to service them indefinitely.

 

[nobbylon]

Yep 356 was a rot box. My cousin had one that he bought used... He found out the hard way after he owned it for a while and started to look closer 🙁

There is also the infamous engine bolts issue.. I cannot remember right now which period it covered, but I think maybe around the 80's. The issue was related to tensile strength was not respec'd high enough when they made the piston bores bigger in their new engine. One of my co-worker had that problem on his 911, he ended up,spending a lot of money getting it resolved. He was second owner.

Gary

2.7 G series motors (corrected due brain f@@t)

 

[EdwardKaraa]

Ill quite happily change my viewpoint if Leica actually stood by their product and didn't adopt the attitude 'it's broke, that's tough, give us more money for the latest model'.

When this particular piece was still available from Leica, anyone knows how much did they charge to change it? I assume it wasn't cheap but have no idea about the exact amount.