ian_watts
Ian Watts
Agreed. It is (if I may be permitted to use an Americanism) a very "low rent" website.
Leica M9 FF-CCD corrosion on sensors
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Agreed. It is (if I may be permitted to use an Americanism) a very "low rent" website.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
It's weird - I always vainly look for page three there....:bang:
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
What will be will be ... and no one really knows except Leica where exactly the chips will land.
Meanwhile I love my 240 and hopefully it will give me no problems now or ever.
Meanwhile I love my 240 and hopefully it will give me no problems now or ever.
--
Well-known
From hearsay I think the first version had various problems. At least it used to be brought up when the IR problem with the M8 occurred. I do not know which they were though.
I have had my R-D1s (the second of three versions) for 7 years and never had a problem (knock on wood).
The sensor is quite difficult to clean though, as you have to keep the bulb on (either using your finger or a locked mechanical release). It sure could do with Olympus' magic system.
But will Leica "get away" with this? There are countries where a product must work for its expected life time. Surely that is not only 5 years? I have ten year old digital cameras that work fine. And so they should.
I feel very sorry for the people affected by this. I hope that a more permanent solution will be presented by Leica when the seriousness hits Wetzlar.
/Xpanded
ajramirez
Established
While it may not be easy to tell how widespread the problem is, my own experience shows it is real indeed, and high humidity is very likely the source of the problem.
My M9P was purchased new in April 2012. It went in to Leica NJ in February 2013 for its first sensor replacement. At that point, it had no less than 50 - 60 sensor spots that could not be blown away. At that time, I did not know there was any problem, other than the fact that Leica replaced the sensor instead of merely cleaning it.
One year and a half later, and the camera is ready to be shipped off for its second sensor replacement. Again, the problem is quite significant and not merely a few spots here and there.
I looked back through my files and found that you could see some of the deterioration as far back as April this year. This means that I am getting no more than one year of use from each sensor.
I have never wet cleaned my sensors; i only use a Rocket Blower. Mind you, I do live in Puerto Rico, which is fairly humid all year round.
I would not mind this so much, except for the fact that each round trip to Leica NJ takes no less than one month. This time, when I called, I was told to send the camera in now (to assure my place in line) but that they do not expect to be able to return it to me until the end of January 2015.
I have been very happy with the performance of my M9P otherwise, but this is just unacceptable to me. If a reasonable offer to upgrade to a M 240 is presented by Leica, I am likely to take advantage of it.
Regards,
Antonio
Vobluda
Well-known
I am not optimistic and I am pretty sure that their offer to upgrade will be completely ridiculous and that it will trigger group lawsuit that I will be happy to join.
Benjamin Marks
Veteran
I think Jaapv, that this will be a matter of local law. In the US, a purchaser has recourse under the Uniform Commercial Code, as adopted by each state, against a manufacturer who puts out a defective product. I am sure the EU has a similar set of laws, with its own EU tweaks. For all I know, your comment about "privity" with a storekeeper may be true where you are located, but it would be an odd way to set up a system. That fellow (the shopkeeper) does not have the resources to make any long term promise about the product you have purchased. He only has a relationship with the folks who do.
In any case, Leica has positioned themselves as purveyors of a "veblen good" and the current debacle damages the marque. If I were them, I would worry more about the reputational effects.
Jack Sparrow
Well-known
Looks like Leica will be issuing an official response tomorrow. Should be interesting.
MCTuomey
Veteran
I checked my MM and M9 (latter is on its second sensor). Both show evidence of the delamination problem, unlucky me. They're on their way to Leica NJ (thanks to very responsive direction from Roxana Lynch in Customer Care). Fingers and toes crossed, I'm preparing to wait awhile. Fortunately I have other gear that will travel and carry nearly as well as the M cameras.
Serial sensor replacement isn't attractive to me, as the second sensor in the M9 appears to have lasted two years in modest use in a not-so-humid climate. Not sure whether I want an M240, I like what I've got. I hope there's a permanent solution soon.
Serial sensor replacement isn't attractive to me, as the second sensor in the M9 appears to have lasted two years in modest use in a not-so-humid climate. Not sure whether I want an M240, I like what I've got. I hope there's a permanent solution soon.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
No, it has pretty well crystallized that the cause is the inherent sensitivity of the glass which has been counteracted by the application of a coating, instead of a clear glass cover ( impossible on a RF camera)
The coating gets damaged, allowing humidity access to the glass.
The glue being the cause is very unlikely.
Anyway we hopefully can expect a statement from Leica within the week.
Ronald M
Veteran
I still have my M8 and filters. 4000 exposures on it.
The M9P is 3 years old and has less than 1000 pics. Beautiful camera and I love it, at least I did until this showed up.
So far no white spots but I will be protecting it from humidity.
Leica is the biggest pain in the .... camera system ever. The saving grace is they make the best photos although Nikon is gaining.
I would probably sell the Mint M9P for a M240 , except now the word is out and value is in the pit. We still have the stupid line problem probably caused by cosmic ray.
I will probably shoot the M9 until it can not be repaired.
Anybody want $20,000 in Leica lenses?
The M9P is 3 years old and has less than 1000 pics. Beautiful camera and I love it, at least I did until this showed up.
So far no white spots but I will be protecting it from humidity.
Leica is the biggest pain in the .... camera system ever. The saving grace is they make the best photos although Nikon is gaining.
I would probably sell the Mint M9P for a M240 , except now the word is out and value is in the pit. We still have the stupid line problem probably caused by cosmic ray.
I will probably shoot the M9 until it can not be repaired.
Anybody want $20,000 in Leica lenses?
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
It would be a sad day if it came to lawsuits at all. It would mean that Leica had failed to come up with a satisfactory solution, something one wouldn't expect from a company of Leica's standing.
I think, btw that German law applies to Leica supplying the camera. That would be in the contracts they have with their representatives.
I think, btw that German law applies to Leica supplying the camera. That would be in the contracts they have with their representatives.
black man
Newbie
My M-E sensor was replaced in Jul this year (with 4 months down time) and it started to show spots again. Last week I gave a Leica Singapore for checking on possibility of trade in/upgrade to M240 (with not much of hope). To my surprise, they said yes and made me a appointment for today. Brought my M-E in this morning and they offered 65% of original price for my 2 year old M-E and I have to top up the balance for the M240. Not sure if it is a good deal, but I bite the bullet. Hope the M240 wouldn't give me any problem soon.
So just for information if you want to give a call to Leica in your country to check out.
So just for information if you want to give a call to Leica in your country to check out.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Well, the "stupid line problem" affects all digital cameras, so your best bet will be to take up painting.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
In your place I would wait a few days before finally accepting.
Michael Markey
Veteran
A message from Leica on LUF....
"A very, very brief summary:
Leica is aware of the problem in every way and really concerned about it. (Hopefully my English is sufficient to express HOW concerned they are).
A lot of departments and single employees in Wetzlar are working on finding the full reasons of the problem, how to solve them and how to find a good solution for all customers.
Please have one or two days patience until they are ready to publish their findings and decisions.
Thanks "
Sounds hopeful.
"A very, very brief summary:
Leica is aware of the problem in every way and really concerned about it. (Hopefully my English is sufficient to express HOW concerned they are).
A lot of departments and single employees in Wetzlar are working on finding the full reasons of the problem, how to solve them and how to find a good solution for all customers.
Please have one or two days patience until they are ready to publish their findings and decisions.
Thanks "
Sounds hopeful.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Only indirectly from Leica, but from Admin on LUF. Who, admittedly, is advising Leica on this matter.
Michael Markey
Veteran
Ah ...thanks for the clarification.
Jack Sparrow
Well-known
LOL. "Advising Leica?" That's a good one.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
😕What is so strange about that? Luf has a good relationship with Leica.
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