dcsang
Canadian & Not A Dentist
What is so strange about that? Luf has a good relationship with Leica.
The entire forum/website has a good relationship with Leica?
Every single member?
Wow.. that's a first.
Cheers,
Dave
Jack Sparrow
Well-known
They're one forum of literally dozens; a small subset of actual users - which number in the tens of thousands. I don't think Leica needs the "advising" of a forum. Especially when everybody's still guessing at what the problem is - and what it's caused by. Leica knows all of this already, surely.
Jack Sparrow
Well-known
Who says they don't know about the issue? There are countless forums discussing this right now; a couple of them long before luf - for example, right here at rff. Or the French summilux.net site. Just saying.
Cleaned my own m9 over the weekend and looked for spots... None found, thankfully!
dcsang
Canadian & Not A Dentist
But Jack..... all those other forums.. all the other users of those forums.. and all the other owners of Leica M9 / MM / M-E / M9-P cameras... they aren't the hallowed "LUF" after all...
Said with tongue firmly in cheek,
Dave
Jack Sparrow
Well-known
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Maybe Leica likes the numbers - over 50.000 members, 400.000 logins a month,3.600.000 page visits a month....
It is a stupid company nowadays that does not take the feedback of their main customer forum seriously...
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
You mean like every single American should have a good relationship with every country that has an embassy in Washintton?
rolo
Established
If Leica have not been able to provide a sensor that negates this issue, it probably means that there isn't one available. If that's the case, my guess is that this imperfect sensor was the only opportunity Leica had to bring the full-frame M9 to market.
I suspect that the problem was known during M9 development and was a risk worth taking to get beyond the M8. Every confidence that Leica now has the resources to look after it's customers, as they always have.
I suspect that the problem was known during M9 development and was a risk worth taking to get beyond the M8. Every confidence that Leica now has the resources to look after it's customers, as they always have.
NazgulKing
Established
Well, my camera has historically gone back 3 times for sensor replacement. 2 times for sensor delamination, once for fungus.. heaven knows how it got there. I sold the camera, but well, it was annoying to not have the camera.
Jack Sparrow
Well-known
LOL... Yes, and I'm sure they all log in and are active. Every forum, even this one, accrue "users" from day one. Some sign up, look at three posts and never come back. Many are spam bots.Maybe Leica likes the numbers - over 50.000 members, 400.000 logins a month,3.600.000 page visits a month....
It is a stupid company nowadays that does not take the feedback of their main customer forum seriously...
As for "main customer forum" that's a matter of opinion. Is it endorsed by Leica? No, I didn't think so.
Michael Markey
Veteran
Which is why I suspect that the "solution" will be a marketing one rather than a technical long term fix.
An upgrade incentive and a buy back through dealers.
thompsonks
Well-known
An upgrade incentive to whatever follows the M240 would be a nice solution.
Kirk
Kirk
dcsang
Canadian & Not A Dentist
It wasn't I who stated that Leica had a good relationship with "LUF" - it was you. I merely am pointing out, in a round about way, what Jack has stated just above regarding user numbers etc.
Regarding Leica taking "advice" from a forum (specifically LUF); the impression that was left, at least with me, was that Leica and LUF are so exclusive that every other forum, forum user, or owner, can basically keep their mouths shut about this issue since any information they may have to share or inform is not relevant since it is not coming from LUF or Leica.
I would prefer to hear from Leica directly (which I'm sure we will) but to disregard any/all information from other fora / sites / users/owners other than LUF seems a bit, well, conceited.
Cheers,
Dave
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
What is so strange that a company-Leica- asks advice from the owner of their main customer forum - on which they respond officially and which is read by them? Even Mr. Kaufmann is a member.
Indeed quite a few members have close connections with Leica and will / can not throw everything they know on the Internet. NDAs are quite common. For instance I had an NDA for a camera that got a special engraving and leather that Leica did not want to be universal knowledge.
Beta testrs will have NDAs for cameras that are not yet on the market, groups of firmware testers recruited fromthe forum will not comment on not-yet publicly released firmware, etc.
It has nothing to do with conceit - it is just a fact of life.
And it is not exclusive - even you can become a member.
EdwardKaraa
Well-known
Well, it's called the Leica User Forum after all
And to be honest, before the sensor issue came up, how many posts in the digital M forum over here per day? This is a rangefinder forum, and mostly film users.
And to be honest, before the sensor issue came up, how many posts in the digital M forum over here per day? This is a rangefinder forum, and mostly film users.
Jack Sparrow
Well-known
Well, it's called the Leica User Forum after all
...and that amounts to exactly: nothing.
What is so strange that a company-Leica- asks advice from the owner of their main customer forum - on which they respond officially and which is read by them? Even Mr. Kaufmann is a member.
Indeed quite a few members have close connections with Leica and will / can not throw everything they know on the Internet. NDAs are quite common. For instance I had an NDA for a camera that got a special engraving and leather that Leica did not want to be universal knowledge.
Beta testrs will have NDAs for cameras that are not yet on the market, groups of firmware testers recruited fromthe forum will not comment on not-yet publicly released firmware, etc.
It has nothing to do with conceit - it is just a fact of life.
And it is not exclusive - even you can become a member.
There you go again. "Main customer forum." Says who? Luf?
And I've yet to see any Leica employees post directly on LUF, at least not regarding this issue. From what I saw, a regular member posted those anecdotes.
Dr. Kaufmann is a member at many sites.
MCTuomey
Veteran
Both my digi M's are in for repair (so much for backups). Likely a long process. What concerns me is that the pleasure I derive from using Leica gear is dissipating, due to the frequency and length of service trips. I'm not one of those who believes that a higher price commands higher reliability and quality. My view is that Leica is a luxury brand and what I'm paying for, more than anything else, is pleasure and delight in use. It's starting not to be fun. It's a drag to ship gear, wait, discuss repairs, wait, discuss make good proposals, wait some more, figure out how and what to shoot in the meantime, wait, and then get the gear back only to restart the cycle soon enough for the next problem.
This isn't luxury. This is discouraging and disappointing. My Canon and Fuji gear is looking a lot better these days.
This isn't luxury. This is discouraging and disappointing. My Canon and Fuji gear is looking a lot better these days.
EdwardKaraa
Well-known
Mike, I totally agree with you, and I was in the same position as you, and even switched to Sony when my M9 was in repair. But I can confidently say the M240 is the most mature digital M product to date. It is not affected by any major issues and works seamlessly.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Says Leica....and that amounts to exactly: nothing.
There you go again. "Main customer forum." Says who? Luf?
And I've yet to see any Leica employees post directly on LUF, at least not regarding this issue. From what I saw, a regular member posted those anecdotes.
Dr. Kaufmann is a member at many sites.
Whatever, Mr. Viau who made the posts is an official spokesman for Leica.
EdwardKaraa
Well-known
No need for jealousy guys! I mean how many of you are NOT members at LUF?