Leica MDa dilemna

[Laviolette]

I just bought a MDa for very cheap (50$). The camera is in pretty good condition except for a broken shutter (curtains are stuck open after winding). I know some people use these for scale focusing with wide-angles.

For those who have experience in repairing this kind of problem : is that habitually a difficult repair? I have repaired some bodies and lenses in the past, but nothing that involved shutter curtains. I also don't have the specials tools for removing the top plate of a Leica and buying them would be for this repair only : no way I would ever dare to open my M4! On the plus side, I'm very patient, take photos of everything I disassemble and never messed up a repair I intended.

I would like some feedback from the others, especially people who have done this repair. If you think it will be way over my head (probably the case), I will just hand the camera to a professional.

 

[Landshark]

The shutter has to be the most complicated assembly in this camera.
It may be a curtain tape slipped off it;s roller, the second curtain lost tension on it's spring. A Bump or knock could do that or the closing curtain latch is gummed up and won't release the curtain

 

[Vickko]

If the curtains are stuck open, my first guess is that one of the felt light shields has come loose, and is now jammed in the shutter ribbon. This is the most common cause of jammed M2/M3 cameras.

Fixing an MDa is very easy if this is the case, because it has no rangefinder. On an M3 or M2, the rangefinder arm needs to be removed to get to the light shield.

The body shell and the film chamber light shields need to be removed, to get access to the shutter curtain. You might even get away with not having to remove the top deck (for so many Leica repairs, I routinely take the top off).

Do you want to give it a go?

To get the body shell off, take off all the front screws, and the lens ring. You will have to remove the top screw of the lens ring, which is sealed under a wad of wax. And there is a screw at the bottom front, when you remove the bottom plate. The body shell then slides off (with some squeezing and pulling). Oh, take the rear flap off first.

Now with the shell off, remove the brass film chamber light shield. You should be able to see its attaching screws. If the felt is jammed into the shutter, it will now be obvious. The felt is on the top and bottom of the light shield, next to the shutter tapes. If it is in the shutter, carefully pull it out. You may need to get some shutter slack to release the felt.

Reassembly is the reverse of your steps.

After you reassemble the body, then you check the shutter timing. The shutter tension is accessed if you remove the inner bottom plate of the body (the one that contains the image of the film path). The two tension screws are beside each other on the film cassette end of the camera. To tension (or loosen) the spring, you use a sufficiently wide screwdriver and push down the spring ring, then turn the tensioning screw. The screw nearest the film plane is the curtain that opens first when the shutter is released; the screw furthest from the film plane is the the curtain the follows and closes the shutter timing.



Good luck.

 

[Laviolette]

Thanks for the replies so far. I forgot to say in my original post that the shutter was partly working when I first got the camera : looks like there was only the closing curtain though. After winding and firing the shutter a few times, the closing curtain stuck open.

Vickko : thank you for the detailed reply! With the bit of info I added, do you still think it could be trapped felt?

 

[Vickko]

Um, yup. If it used to work, I'm certain the felt has jammed in the shutter tape.

Don't try to tension the shutter any more, it will only get worse.

If it were me, I'd want to repair it soon, because it is stretching and distorting the fabric.

It honestly isn't a hard repair. Far easier than replacing a torn curtain or a curtain that has developed pinholes.

Are you in Ottawa?

 

[Vickko]

Oh, read here to educate yourself about the inner guts of a Leica

http://www.pentax-manuals.com/manuals/service/leica basic repair.pdf

 

[roundg]

If you don't have the experience or right tools, don't DIY. replacing the curtain is not that expensive, around 100USD (At Youxin Ye). it would make the final total cost still below 200USD -- sweet for a Mda.

I am a MDa lover, My SA21 permanently fits on it.

 

[Laviolette]

Um, yup. If it used to work, I'm certain the felt has jammed in the shutter tape.

Don't try to tension the shutter any more, it will only get worse.

If it were me, I'd want to repair it soon, because it is stretching and distorting the fabric.

It honestly isn't a hard repair. Far easier than replacing a torn curtain or a curtain that has developed pinholes.

Are you in Ottawa?

Trois-Rivières, but my brother is in Hull and a visit to him was planned soon!

 

[splitimageview]

Don't open it yourself. You'll regret it, get a proper CLA. You need the right tools, and you're likely to mar screws, among other potentially far greater pitfalls. At $50 it makes no sense to do otherwise. 🙂

 

[Laviolette]

Update : I opened the camera to see what's wrong with the shutter. It looks like the first curtain is unglued :

The curtain also looks somewhat curly...

I don't think I will try to repair this myself. I will take a decision in the next few days if I sell the camera for parts or send it for a repair.

 

[mooge]

try it yourself!!! replacing a curtain (the opening curtain, to be precise) was the first (of too many) repairs I did to my M2. I used a curtain out of a Pentax spotmatic; and it worked fine. Well, actually it didn't; I got some shutter capping issues a few months later but I fixed that too. And then there were the cold weather issues... but anyways, you're (presumably) a young lad, so if you want to keep using these classic cameras, it's not a bad idea to learn how to work on them. the techs won't be around forever. I guess.




(and is that a synth in the background?)

 

[Laviolette]

I am actually giving it some thinking...and reading on the subject. That might be a week-end project.

(and is that a synth in the background?)

It is! I'm a musician.

 

[rfaspen]

Well,

I'm not going to be much help here, but I do see what your choice is. You can send this camera to Youxin and have CLA and new curtains for a reasonable price (I doubt it would be more than $250 for everything overall?). He would go through and assure timings, use appropriate materials, clean things up, etc. Or, you could fix this yourself. And I do think you could fix your camera.

I have been doing camera repairs as a hobbyist (very much an amateur hobbyist!) for years now. So, I'm moderately comfortable when taking off a top plate and encountering the guts of a camera (which can terrify and overwhelm the mechanically challenged).

As I mentioned in another thread here on RFF, I am currently restoring an M3. It is the first M that I've opened up, and the restoration is going to be a testament to the enduring design and craftsmanship that is a Leica.

My camera was given to me, free of charge. It was dropped in the ocean. It was then retrieved and toweled off, then placed on a shelf to sit for about 10 years:bang:. On the outside, the camera didn't look too bad. You could see that the viewfinder/rangefinder windows were quite cloudy, but other than that, you'd almost expect the camera to work. Not so. Inside was a different story.

I have disassembled this poor thing nearly completely. I have cleaned, scraped, and polished nearly everything. Even removed the sand 😱. Miraculously, the rangefinder prism remained cemented (silvered) and appears to be intact. This was a big relief because M3 rangefinders are not terribly interchangeable, and of course there are no replacement parts to be had. A few of the thin springs corroded and broke, but I can find or make replacements. Other than that, everything seemed to have survived. Well, the vulcanite will need to be replaced. Anyway, it is going back together nicely and (joy of joy) it seems to be operating correctly for the current stage of assembly. I had my doubts early on, but now I'm hopeful, no I'm confident, that this camera will again take photos.

I relate this story about my "survivor Leica" because if I can accomplish a complete tear down and repair, most any competent, mechanically oriented person can. I did have some of the special tools needed for the top plate removal from previous repair endeavors. I made the remaining tools that I didn't already have (not as impressive as that might sound).

The M2, M3, and M4 (and the MDa, which I think is an M4) are just so logically put together. I work off of manuals and sketches provided by other camera repair buffs, but the manual mentioned in a previous post here is about as good as it gets. It has enough info to keep you on the right track.

Now the sobering part. I'm easily 60 or more solid hours into this restoration. And that doesn't include bathroom breaks😉. I expect another 60? before I have this reassembled. Then there's the timing and rangefinder adjustments (from scratch) which take longer than you might think. If it wasn't for the obviously prohibitive cost of sending this to an expert, I would have reconsidered. I mean I would have really reconsidered. My guess is Youxin, DAG, or Sherry would have insisted on writing off this camera as a basket case, and part it out as possible. I guess I'm not that bright.

Sending to Youxin sounds like a better idea now. Either way, I wish you good luck!

 

[Laviolette]

Very interesting read! Thank you for your insight.

I hope to see pictures of your camera once done.

Reading comments as yours push me more and more toward doing it myself, and learning along the way.

 

[Vickko]

Okay, the "opening" curtain has come off the steel bar. In a way, you are lucky because the length alignments are still intact.

You actually might be able to get it back on without having to take the shutter off. Loosen all the tension off of it so that you can work. Actually, the tension is probably all off anyway (imagine a roller blind that has let go, and it goes "flap flap flap".).

How frayed is that edge? Is there enough to re-insert? And some glue might help too.

So, the trick is to very gently pry the steel bar apart, reinsert the curtain, and press the bar flat again to hold the curtain. You may want to make a wooden block to support your work.

Good luck.