Harry Lime
Practitioner
The X1 is $2000, before you add the 36mm brightline finder for another $350. The body alone is almost 2.5 times more expensive than the Sigma.
Leica X1
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The X1 is $2000, before you add the 36mm brightline finder for another $350. The body alone is almost 2.5 times more expensive than the Sigma.
kully
Happy Snapper
dpreview.com has some sample pics up from a production camera.
Avotius
Some guy
Those are some really decent shots coming out of that camera. If it had a f2.0 lens I would sell the EP1 and one or two other things and have it, but....2.8....even Canon, the compact camera big aperture hold outs have gone f2.0....
Also not sure if im seeing much leica'ness in those photos, and the ISO 3200's are just so so, but the low ISO stuff is really impressive. Even the ISO 1600 is not so bad but im not a fan of chroma noise (is anyone?) and it is starting to creep in there, 3200 looks like a bit of a stretch.
That said, I dont see what this camera can do that my EP1 cannot in the image quality field. Though the prospect of an even smaller camera with big sensor is nice....still not feeling it here.
Also not sure if im seeing much leica'ness in those photos, and the ISO 3200's are just so so, but the low ISO stuff is really impressive. Even the ISO 1600 is not so bad but im not a fan of chroma noise (is anyone?) and it is starting to creep in there, 3200 looks like a bit of a stretch.
That said, I dont see what this camera can do that my EP1 cannot in the image quality field. Though the prospect of an even smaller camera with big sensor is nice....still not feeling it here.
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jke
Well-known
I think I agree with Avotius here, with the caveat that it is really hard for me to tell a lot from images on a computer screen. I guess I am an old dog, but I like to see prints or at least, play with the files in Photoshop. I think I can see an improvement in clarity, EV range and noise in the X1 over the Panasonic GF1 shots on DPreview, but I would be hard pressed to say that I could argue for $1000 worth of benefit. Perhaps the benefit is made up in usability, durability, etc.
The one thing the GF1 has going for it though, besides price, is that I can use Leica lenses on it.
Leica X1
Panasonic GF1
The one thing the GF1 has going for it though, besides price, is that I can use Leica lenses on it.
Leica X1
Panasonic GF1
Avotius
Some guy
I just printed out two photos with my Epson inkjet on A3 sized paper, they look good but really...if you take these (I printed the tall tree one with the two people in the background and the guy with the M9) and compare them to the prints with the EP1, you cant tell anything between them, which is not a surprise at these sizes I guess but still, color, details and what not...not much to choose from.
Paddy C
Unused film collector
I don't shoot digital, but I am looking at options. So I don't know anything about the post-processing side (cleaning up noise etc.).
The 1600 shots looked pretty good to me. The 3200 were looking not so great, but I don't know what an expert might be able to do with them.
Having said that...the Panasonic 20mm 1.7 beats the X1 by a full stop and a third (I think...my aperture calcs are not good). Add this to the EP1 (or 2) for in-body stabilization and you suddenly don't need to worry so much about sensor size or the X1's high ISO performance.
And since I can see little difference, and I would guess none on reasonably sized prints, between the output from these three cameras, you have to wonder what sense the X1 makes.
The 1600 shots looked pretty good to me. The 3200 were looking not so great, but I don't know what an expert might be able to do with them.
Having said that...the Panasonic 20mm 1.7 beats the X1 by a full stop and a third (I think...my aperture calcs are not good). Add this to the EP1 (or 2) for in-body stabilization and you suddenly don't need to worry so much about sensor size or the X1's high ISO performance.
And since I can see little difference, and I would guess none on reasonably sized prints, between the output from these three cameras, you have to wonder what sense the X1 makes.
photogdave
Shops local
Some people will happily pay the money for the Leica name. Sad but true.
Plenty people bought the DLux 4 over the LX3 knowing full well it is the exact same camera. To be fair the Leica did come with better software and a better warranty but it still costs almost twice as much.
After playing with some of these large sensor compacts, I think I'll wait until they make one with a good quality built-in EVF, but more compact than the G1 or GH1. Until that day maybe I'll pick up and LX3 or S90.
Eh, who am I kidding? I'll probably just keep using my Stylus Epic. Full frame compact!
Bill Pierce
Well-known
I have to say that, among all the “small” cameras that I have used, the Canon S90 impresses me the most.
First off, it is genuinely small, fits in a shirt pocket and as such is always ready. This may be its single, greatest advantage. After all, the Leica originally made its mark because you could carry it with you, always ready to use, not something you could do with other cameras of the day.
Image quality is amazing for such a small camera. All other things being equal, higher ISO’s mean more noise or more softening of the image to make the noise less obvious. But all things aren’t equal. There’s a new sensor and a new processor. Maintaining image quality is a balancing act. It’s not just pixel size or number of pixels. It’s closer to a bottomless pit of factors. Somehow, this tiny camera with its tiny sensor can often match the performance, even outdo the performance, of some cameras with a bigger sensor.
More to say later, but for now read
http://luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/s90.shtml
to get Michael Reichmann’s opinion.
You may have to look up the Canon S90 review in the Luminous Landscape index because the site has been recently updated.
First off, it is genuinely small, fits in a shirt pocket and as such is always ready. This may be its single, greatest advantage. After all, the Leica originally made its mark because you could carry it with you, always ready to use, not something you could do with other cameras of the day.
Image quality is amazing for such a small camera. All other things being equal, higher ISO’s mean more noise or more softening of the image to make the noise less obvious. But all things aren’t equal. There’s a new sensor and a new processor. Maintaining image quality is a balancing act. It’s not just pixel size or number of pixels. It’s closer to a bottomless pit of factors. Somehow, this tiny camera with its tiny sensor can often match the performance, even outdo the performance, of some cameras with a bigger sensor.
More to say later, but for now read
http://luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/s90.shtml
to get Michael Reichmann’s opinion.
You may have to look up the Canon S90 review in the Luminous Landscape index because the site has been recently updated.
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Harry Lime
Practitioner
Ricoh is supposed to release a new camera in mid November that may have an APS sensor and interchangeable lenses. Supposedly it is tiny. Really tiny, due to a folded optical path from the mount to the sensor. The rumor mill says Nov 12.
I hope this is true, because while there are several compacts out there Ricoh seems to have figured out the interface end of things better than anyone else. The GRD III is in a league of it's own in this respect (scale focusing etc). I would buy a GRD III tomorrow if it had a 35mm, instead of 28mm lens.
The other intriguing rumor out there is a M4/3rd camera from Fuji using their new EXR sensor technology. That would solve the dynamic range problem, since the EXR is an improved version of their SuperCCD, that delivered a solid +10 stops of useable range in the S5 Pro.
I hope this is true, because while there are several compacts out there Ricoh seems to have figured out the interface end of things better than anyone else. The GRD III is in a league of it's own in this respect (scale focusing etc). I would buy a GRD III tomorrow if it had a 35mm, instead of 28mm lens.
The other intriguing rumor out there is a M4/3rd camera from Fuji using their new EXR sensor technology. That would solve the dynamic range problem, since the EXR is an improved version of their SuperCCD, that delivered a solid +10 stops of useable range in the S5 Pro.
Harry Lime
Practitioner
It would be interesting to glue a dummy hotshoe on top of the S90, so you could mount brightline finders on it...
Bill Pierce
Well-known
It was my dream to find a hotshoe that I could screw into the tripod socket, the only appropriate space not taken up with a switch or button. I've gone through boxes of small parts and not found the right combination. Looks like I'm going to have to take a hotshoe and a 1/4 20 thread and epoxy them together. Of course, that means that when I'm using the bright line finder, I'll be holding the camera upside down.
Frankie
Speaking Frankly
I believe the M8 had killed the X1 before its launch, much liked the M4 did to the M5...especially for those who already have a usable lens and would buy a used M8. Yes, the M8 is orphaned, but so was the M2/3/4 then.
In candid RF photography, response speed is absolutely important. The slow X1 auto-only focusing is deadly...with no zone pre-focus possible. An optical 35mm equivalent finder has always been available, so what else is new?
The X1 has a flash. If flash is needed...antitheses in candid's...use a real one. No dinky built-in would ever do. Don't even bother studying the "Guide Number" table.
The market segment for the X1 is now defined by the Panasonic GF-1 and Olympus EP-2, especially when Leica wants twice the money. The point of competition [at least for me] is the EVF.
The EVF in the GF-1 is not good enough [for me]. The EP-2 is said to have matched the GH-1 using a new Epson LCD chip. If so, good enough indeed.
A Leica X1 with EVF, not likely to happen any time soon. Even if it did, an X2 would be needed...no data port available in the olde X1.
Bill Pierce
Well-known
Here's the just posted dpreview review of the X1
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/LeicaX1/
The only thing I would add to Frankie's comments, which I think are on target, is that among the folks whose equipment use is familiar to me there are a lot of Canon G10's and S90's. Over time we may see a number of G11's. But that remains to be seen. Most of the folks whose equipment usage I know are professionals. That means big prints. Although the GF1 and EP2 have bigger sensors, these G10's and S90's seem to be delivering pretty decent 17x22's at lower ISO's. So much so, that folks are using table top tripods and other gizmos to let them use the low ISO's. At high ISO's, well, P3200 had a big following; some folks even developed it in Rodinal. It's not objectionable digital noise; it's grain, and it's artistic.
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/LeicaX1/
The only thing I would add to Frankie's comments, which I think are on target, is that among the folks whose equipment use is familiar to me there are a lot of Canon G10's and S90's. Over time we may see a number of G11's. But that remains to be seen. Most of the folks whose equipment usage I know are professionals. That means big prints. Although the GF1 and EP2 have bigger sensors, these G10's and S90's seem to be delivering pretty decent 17x22's at lower ISO's. So much so, that folks are using table top tripods and other gizmos to let them use the low ISO's. At high ISO's, well, P3200 had a big following; some folks even developed it in Rodinal. It's not objectionable digital noise; it's grain, and it's artistic.
helen.HH
To Light & Love ...
op asked question in 2009....😱
thought I would answer it in 2014....😛.
Yes it works for me even though its a 12megapixel dinosaur in Today's mega, mega pixel techno world
I find it small enough to fit in my jacket pocket, such an easy limited menu,
very little to No PP required, I can carry it with my M film body, love its b&w mellow rendering
and finally in today's market you can find one for $600-700.00
leicax1 by helenhill_HH, on Flickr
thought I would answer it in 2014....😛.
Yes it works for me even though its a 12megapixel dinosaur in Today's mega, mega pixel techno world
I find it small enough to fit in my jacket pocket, such an easy limited menu,
very little to No PP required, I can carry it with my M film body, love its b&w mellow rendering
and finally in today's market you can find one for $600-700.00
leicax1 by helenhill_HH, on Flickr
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