LOL Possibly the *worst* leica copy i've ever seen!!

Oh my ....

yes... I bought my FED-5B only for the I61 L/D ... it's so fun! I will save the photos on my harddisk :)
 
John Robertson said:
Its the way things are today, a dumbed down public will buy anything!! In Prague for instance there is an area with dozens of shops selling tarted up cheap watches made to look like military FSU items, very poor quality Russian babushka dolls, and a lot of other horrible crap, it completely spoils the area, and the stuff has nothing to do with Prague , Czech history , culture or craft. I saw some of these abomitation cameras there!! Most looked as though they had been sprayed with cheap car paint in some scruffy back shop. Yet people were buying them, and I'm very sorry to say mostly by Japanese and US tourists. :bang:
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I know very well what you are talking about, and there are even some shops where I wouldn't trust the seller saying that they have Leica's II or III for sale. I've seen them, and to be honest the only place where I would "waste" money on an old Leica would be FotoSkoda (visiting the place 4 times /week). I'm going often also at Jan Pazdera but the Leica's exposed there just don't sound about right to me.

Lot of shops in the historical center were set-up by FSU businessmen who give a wrong vision of what the Czech Republic is. Myself as a foreigner, the first time I arrived here, I was almost fooled, but when you take the time to read and learn about the country you live in, you see that all these things are crap, badly made, and meant to fool the ignorant tourist.

Just my two cents! :)
max
 
Max, would you mind if I sent you a PM this week? I'm going to Prague in a few weeks, just curious about a few things!
 
I've said it before and I'll say it again: I think there is a good business model in these things.
Something like Gevorg Vartanyan is doing with the Kiev 60 and 88 cameras.
"Blueprint"(as the hotrodders say) the cameras and then offer apperance choices and charge appropriately for 'em. ("Blueprinting" is an expression that means to take a car engine and go through it and bring it up to the optimal design specs)
I am tempted by some of these except for the nazi symbols on alot of them and that I do not trust that the cameras will actually work.
Rob
 
I had seen this and shook my head in disbelief. Now, on second viewing of this camera it appears that there might be Photoshop (or Gimp) action at play. What gives me this impression is that the "Leica" red badge on the back of the camera looks too good. Also the engraving at the top is super clean and so is the chrome immediatelt surrounding it. As though the "clone" tool was used to blend it into the image.

There is a lack of "grunge" in surrounding the Leica details that appear elsewhere on the camera. Admittedly that could be a result of work that might have been done.

I get the impression that "clone" title might be a reference to some digital trickery.
 
I agree with all those who think that it would be better if those guys, instead of making fake nazi Leicas, spent their efforts refurbishing or returning them to their original condition. Yet, I´ve seen no "nazi" Contax (fake, of course) in the market. Don´t know why. I think that many FSU cameras are really good performers, even if they have no fast winding levers or such other refinements as contemporary cameras may have. For what I know, the real nazi engravings are far different from those in the cameras advertised as originals or even copies of them.

Besides, there should be still today (and I don´t know where) some remaining cameras from the nazi era, both Leicas and Contaxes (and some others I guess), many of them perhaps with their original Wehmacht, Kriegsmarine or Luftwaffe engravings and identificaction marks. Guess they should command very high prices in case they are for sale.
Have any of you seen one of those cameras?

Regards
Ernesto
 
ErnestoJL said:
I agree with all those who think that it would be better if those guys, instead of making fake nazi Leicas, spent their efforts refurbishing or returning them to their original condition. Yet, I´ve seen no "nazi" Contax (fake, of course) in the market. Don´t know why. I think that many FSU cameras are really good performers, even if they have no fast winding levers or such other refinements as contemporary cameras may have. For what I know, the real nazi engravings are far different from those in the cameras advertised as originals or even copies of them.

Besides, there should be still today (and I don´t know where) some remaining cameras from the nazi era, both Leicas and Contaxes (and some others I guess), many of them perhaps with their original Wehmacht, Kriegsmarine or Luftwaffe engravings and identificaction marks. Guess they should command very high prices in case they are for sale.
Have any of you seen one of those cameras?

Regards
Ernesto
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Hola Ernesto!
Argentina should have a few. Peron let several hundred nazis escape to Argentina in 1945. All were wealthy and probably brought their cameras with them. Do you know Lutz Ferrando in Buenos Aires? If you do, cameraquest is trying to find out more about this Mystery Kriegsmarine Leica II
http://www.cameraquest.com/kriegsma.htm

R.J.
 
Hey RJ!

Thank you for the link! It was very interesting to read the article regarding that strange Leica.

Perhaps I´m unable to bring much new info about this particular camera however it started my interest in it and I will bring as much information as I can.

I have a very old argentine photo magazine issue named “FOTO” from Nov. 1937 advertising the new leica IIIa with the 50/1.5 Xenon lens, sold “ only at Lutz Ferrando y Cia. S.A.”.
Of course I know Lutz Ferrando. They were Leitz (full product range) only seller in Argentina for many years (as early as 1937 as per the ad), and the contract with E. Leitz ceased when the company went into bankrupt during the ´80s. Unfortunately, the company doesn´t exist anymore as it was, but today belongs to an investors group who licensed the name (franchising). They sell only APS, glasses under medical supervision and sunglasses. As far as I was told, no records were kept of previous activities, other than those required by the law.

The CQ article discuss about the markings, and I agree to say that this camera belonged to either a high ranked German Merchant Navy / Kriegsmarine officer or a nazy party member, able either to pay the high asking price it had, or being supplied with it under official service terms. This last perhaps much more possible than being it the personal camera of someone.

The marking “Lutz Ferrando” in the bottom plate was nothing else than a kind of a stamp of the seller (I was told it was kind of certification of purchase for the warranty). It was usually either marked, stamped or engraved in any scientific, technical or photographic equipment whose quality and/or price may justify it. External engravings cannot be traced to any repair, as long as LF didn´t do it with any cameras, instead technicians let some internal handmade markings (as many fine watchmakers do when repairing any fine watch) underneath the bottom/back plate or on internal surfaces not usually visible to the user.

Both practices were kept well into the ´70s (perhaps until companys closing) as I saw two 1970/71 M4 engraved with LF and owner´s name. So, the camera was sold in Buenos Aires by Lutz Ferrando to someone, and engraved under owners request.

No doubt the IIIa with Xenon 1.5 was the top model available at the time, so the LF engraving was justified.
The other marking “Kriegsmarine”, was surely added under request of the owner also by LF. At that time (1936/7), Leicas and Contaxes were regarded as fine jewels or very fine watches, and treated the same way by the sellers (and users too).

Regarding the MF. 002.017 … I guess the capitals do stand for Marine Flieger (Korps), which was the German Navy´s air branch.
I think it was far more convenient to use a small and light camera onboard a small Arado boat plane, plenty of film and easy to work with when doing any patrol or surveillance flight, instead of a heavier and bulkier Exakta 6x6.
The use of the best available lens means a camera expected to dim light working, and the finder for 135 mm, an aid for the photographer to locate and identify ships easier than with naked eye (in case they were used together…
Remember this is just a guess... not even a "qualified guess"...

Regarding the numbering , I really do not know.
I read that numbering was generally traced to either a purchase specification or purchase order. I´m in doubt no records of it would survive today.
Perhaps this numbering would identify the ship and something else… who knows?

The most significant piece of information about is that the camera was bought at auction in Uruguay. It is too close to Argentina (less than 2 km at some places).

Best regards
Ernesto
 
Hola R.J.

You´re right in regard of Peron´s authorization to allow "nazis" to get into our country. The history tells something about some people in regard of this.

Of what I´m sure is that after WW II many people from Europe came to Argentina from any country not only Germany, however the most noted were of course germans.
I can remember seeing many years ago in a family´s friend house, a rather unusual coat or arms, wooden made, which I was told belonged to the engine room of the Graf Von Spee. I´m sure many sailors and officers of that ship (or at least their families) are still living here. The owner told me that this was a gift from a former engineer of the ship, who was working with him for many years (he did automobile repair). As well as this rare collection piece exists and remains hidden today, there should be many others that perhaps will remain hidden forever (or not) like cameras. I guess those pieces wont surface quite easily.
 
Pablo Ferrando

Pablo Ferrando

ErnestoJL said:
Hola R.J.

You´re right in regard of Peron´s authorization to allow "nazis" to get into our country. The history tells something about some people in regard of this.

Of what I´m sure is that after WW II many people from Europe came to Argentina from any country not only Germany, however the most noted were of course germans.
I can remember seeing many years ago in a family´s friend house, a rather unusual coat or arms, wooden made, which I was told belonged to the engine room of the Graf Von Spee. I´m sure many sailors and officers of that ship (or at least their families) are still living here. The owner told me that this was a gift from a former engineer of the ship, who was working with him for many years (he did automobile repair). As well as this rare collection piece exists and remains hidden today, there should be many others that perhaps will remain hidden forever (or not) like cameras. I guess those pieces wont surface quite easily.
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Hola Ernesto!

Gracias for the muy interesante postings! .
Take a look at this Contax II, por favor:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7534710442
“PABLO FERRANDO" is engraved on the front. Is that the name of a dealer in Uruguay perhaps?
It’s stamped “Alemania” so it must be an export version, verdad?

R.J.
 
Hey RJ!
The camera is just a nice Contax II made (AFAIK) in the 1936/38 period (I must locate the website where the production dates were pointed out). I guess the name engraved on the camera front plate is not the name of the seller, rather than the owner´s. It was a regular practice to customize cameras engraving the owner´s name either in the front or other places. The engraving saying "Alemania" was not usual ZI practice, as long as I know. The reason why the owner´s name was engraved in the front plate is that this part is not easily replaceable, as the removable back is. The serial number appears only in the removable back, but should be repeated in another "fixed" part of the camera (mine has it inside the accesory shoe) but the pictures don´t have enough detail. I´ve examined several different Contaxes of the same period, and all of them have minor differences. The camera is not a fake. It would be the former property of someone wealthy enough to buy it new.
I don´t know if the similarities between Lutz Ferrando, and Pablo Ferrando are just accidental or not.

Darkavenger:
I agree with you in regard of that very interesting camera.
I think that a 6 x 6 camera is better suited for being used onboard a ship, than on a plane. It would be interesting to know if those cameras were or not possibly fitted to the Rf systems of the ships, so to get a picture of the target.

Saludos!
Ernesto
 
Ernesto, I wish we had more documentation regarding military use of photography during WW-II. Germany has always been a leader in optics, the precision of Carl Zeiss optics helped greatly the german battlecruisers during the Skagerrak naval battle (Jutland, 1916).
 
Darkkavenger:
I hope that this information (if exists) would become available at some time.
Perhaps the most important was either destroyed during bombings, or as the Contax production line, was transferred to other places.
If that was the case, it can still be considered military information, then nothing will resurface, unless declassified.

I think that 60 years is enough.

Regards.
Ernesto.
 
I've read interesting infos about Carl Zeiss factories on the Zeiss Historica Society website. I think I'm getting a membership there :)
 
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