JChrome
Street Worker
I love shooting photos in the subway (both on the train itself and in the station). I've been able to shoot fairly successfully with 135 film. Of course, the only way to do it is to:
Shoot fast apertures (F1.4)
Shoot high ISO (400)
Shoot slow shutter speeds (1/15th to 1/60th)
Medium format doesn't have the faster apertures. I of course can shoot higher iso, but I don't want the higher contrast of pushing so ISO 400 is basically it. I can also shoot slower shutter speeds but camera shake seems to be difficult for me at anything slower than 1/125th (I've used the Pentax 67).
The fastest medium format lens I've seen is F2 (on the Contax 645, Hasselblad 500 and Rollei 6000 series). I am currently using the Pentax 67's 105mm F2.4. I am not interested in 6x4.5 so that knocks out the Contax.
The Rollei 6000 series is looking very appealing. There is a Schneider 50mm F2.8, and 80mm F2 (also a Zeiss 110mm F2). Because Hasselblad never had the Schneider glass, these were never made for the 500 series (they do have the Zeiss 50mm F2.8 and 110 F2).
I think due to the fast Schneider glass and the better ergonomics of the Rollei, I am going to go for it. Does anyone else know of another system/option I should look at? I am also open to MF rangefinders but the glass doesn't seem to be very fast (aside from the Plaubel's F2.8 Nikkor). I've heard that due to better ergonomics, RF can be shot at slower shutter speeds. However, I also like the option to use waist level viewfinders.
Shoot fast apertures (F1.4)
Shoot high ISO (400)
Shoot slow shutter speeds (1/15th to 1/60th)
Medium format doesn't have the faster apertures. I of course can shoot higher iso, but I don't want the higher contrast of pushing so ISO 400 is basically it. I can also shoot slower shutter speeds but camera shake seems to be difficult for me at anything slower than 1/125th (I've used the Pentax 67).
The fastest medium format lens I've seen is F2 (on the Contax 645, Hasselblad 500 and Rollei 6000 series). I am currently using the Pentax 67's 105mm F2.4. I am not interested in 6x4.5 so that knocks out the Contax.
The Rollei 6000 series is looking very appealing. There is a Schneider 50mm F2.8, and 80mm F2 (also a Zeiss 110mm F2). Because Hasselblad never had the Schneider glass, these were never made for the 500 series (they do have the Zeiss 50mm F2.8 and 110 F2).
I think due to the fast Schneider glass and the better ergonomics of the Rollei, I am going to go for it. Does anyone else know of another system/option I should look at? I am also open to MF rangefinders but the glass doesn't seem to be very fast (aside from the Plaubel's F2.8 Nikkor). I've heard that due to better ergonomics, RF can be shot at slower shutter speeds. However, I also like the option to use waist level viewfinders.
mfogiel
Veteran
Rolleiflex 2.8 TLR, you can handhold down to 1/15th. Any focal plane shutter will be worse, and even more so if there is the mirror slap.
Pioneer
Veteran
I shoot some low light with my Pentax 645Nii and typically use either Portra 400 pushed to 1600, or Delta 3200. It is not so much the shutter speed. In my personal experience it is really the narrow depth of field that makes it tough. You can shoot at f2.8 but the dof is so narrow that your focus better be right on the money or the result often doesn't work.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
For hand-holding, consider a Graflex XL with an 80/2.8 and Delta 3200. As you say, it's easier to hold RFs steady. Likewise Rollei TLRs. Pushing gives HIGHER contrast, not LOWER, incidentally: I assume you mis-typed. Oh: and in my (reasonably extensive) experience, most things are easier to hold steady than a Pentax 67.
Cheers,
R.
Cheers,
R.
BLKRCAT
75% Film
I'm planning a shot in the subway here actually...
Thinking of shooting with the 80mm F2.8 of my bronica with Tmax-400 stand developed and pushed to 1600 to help with shadow detail. I don't usually have a problem shooting 1/60th or even 1/30th with by SQA. I'm sure that your troubles with low light handheld shooting are directly related to your 105mm you're using. I found it extremely difficult to shoot handheld with my 150mm. That and bronica doesn't have much faster lenses than 2.8 for the SQ series.
Thinking of shooting with the 80mm F2.8 of my bronica with Tmax-400 stand developed and pushed to 1600 to help with shadow detail. I don't usually have a problem shooting 1/60th or even 1/30th with by SQA. I'm sure that your troubles with low light handheld shooting are directly related to your 105mm you're using. I found it extremely difficult to shoot handheld with my 150mm. That and bronica doesn't have much faster lenses than 2.8 for the SQ series.
Peter_Jones
Well-known
Koni omega rangefinder or (as already mentioned by mfogiel) Rolleiflex TLR , with some Delta 3200.
Or get a Vivitar 285
Or get a Vivitar 285
tsiklonaut
Well-known
Plaubel Makina 67 is the answer. With f2.8 lens version. Among the best, if not THE best 67 rangefinder ever made, IMO. Don't own it since I can't afford it (yet!), but I did got a chance to try it and was amazed how small, elegant and capable the thing is. If I had the dosh I'd buy it in a heartbeat.
Peter_S
Peter_S
Have a look at the Fuji GF670; it does not have a very fast lens, but the shutter is vibration free (1/15 or 1/8 are possible) and the RF is very clear. Only the RF is a bit short.
As for film...Ilfords HP5+ does well at ISO 800 and above.
As for film...Ilfords HP5+ does well at ISO 800 and above.
goffer
Well-known
Mamiya C330 - TLR, a bit on the heavy side, but it has an 80mm f2.8
I can also attest to the GF670 doing well hand held at slow shutter speeds
I can also attest to the GF670 doing well hand held at slow shutter speeds
Prest_400
Multiformat
I am not a MF shooter, but perhaps I qualify as I've imagined most situations possible with it and been planning for a while.
I've thought about getting into MF and P67 is a nice option. Compared to most RF's you do lose about 2/3-1 stop but you don't have that mirror in there and seemingly it helps a lot for steadyness.
There is Portra 400-800 and many B&W films to be pushed in a quite fine way. Grain isn't that much of a concern on the bigger formats.
There is the issue of photos in the train. The things move quite much!
Too bad that both the makina and the GF670 are quite expensive! Both are a very attractive option for travellers.
I've thought about getting into MF and P67 is a nice option. Compared to most RF's you do lose about 2/3-1 stop but you don't have that mirror in there and seemingly it helps a lot for steadyness.
There is Portra 400-800 and many B&W films to be pushed in a quite fine way. Grain isn't that much of a concern on the bigger formats.
There is the issue of photos in the train. The things move quite much!
thegman
Veteran
I probably find it easier to hold an RF steady than my TLR, but it really is a personal choice. Some people find they can push a TLR against their chest or pull down on the strap to steady it. I found that I could push an RF against my face a little and that allowed me to hold it very steady.
Also I found that with the RF I could look at a point during the exposure and try to keep the camera steady on that point. I did a handheld exposure of 1 second using that technique, and whilst there was obviously shake, it wasn't awful.
Also I found that with the RF I could look at a point during the exposure and try to keep the camera steady on that point. I did a handheld exposure of 1 second using that technique, and whilst there was obviously shake, it wasn't awful.
GaryLH
Veteran
There are a medium format folder from the 60-70 timeframe 6x6 format rf, leaf shutter w/ a Tessar lens at f2.8 that I have in my collection that may work here. I am sure there are others as well.
- Super ikonta 532/16
- Certo Six
Will post a shot of them..from my iPhone
Gary
- Super ikonta 532/16
- Certo Six
Will post a shot of them..from my iPhone
Gary
GaryLH
Veteran
Richard G
Veteran
How do you best hand hold these slower speeds with a TLR? With a Leica I too press the camera and my left thumb to my upper jaw, but with the TLR I have it on a strap and the stability of my stomach is not the same as my skull. I guess it is lower and is swaying less.
hausen
Well-known
+! on the Fuji GF670. Quietest shutter I have ever used.
DKimg
Established
Just picked one up. Just waiting to get it within my hand. Hopefully I can share some handheld examples of it soon! This is one of many reasons why I went for this medium format rangefinder!
This is a familiar situation for me, as I like medium format and I like to hand-hold indoors (as for "environmental portraits"). I found the larger negative mostly overcame the slower lenses, and that faster MF lenses made DoF scarce when you wanted some.
After the Fuji GS670, GS & GA645, etc I settled on the Bronica RF645 as a favorite. I used Fuji Pro 800Z and overexposed a half stop or so for richer shadow detail and insurance on underexposure errors. I would generally set the ISO to 500, adequate for common office interiors. Compact, quiet, good view/rangefinder, good ergonomics, very likeable.
Also very likable is the Pentax 6x7, and handholding was helped with the addition of a right-side handgrip sitting against the body clamped to the two right-side strap lugs. Custom thing by a guy in NY. Then the 67II came along with an integral grip in the same location, even friendlier! I avoid shutter speeds 1/30 down to 1 sec. A 67II might be a nice choice if you'd like to go with an SLR, for the improved handling and better mirror braking.
It's really unfortunate that the availability of fast films in 220 size has virtually died off. Especially for the 6x7 and 6x9 cameras.
furbs
Well-known
Just last night I shot Tri-X at box speed indoors with a 80/2.8 Rollei TLR. Went down to 1/15 and felt relatively confident about my results. Really any camera with a 2.8 or better lens, leaf shutter, and 400-speed film should let you shoot in quite dark situations.
charjohncarter
Veteran
Carlos Hathcock taught me how to shoot low light and steady. He was a famous Vietnam war sniper. I never met him, but admired him while I was in the service at the same time. Watch his videos on 'you tube' well not his videos, but videos about him. I do it every time I shoot without a tripod. And this one was shot with the hated by Roger Hicks Pentax 6x7 at 1/60.
froyd
Veteran
I usually pull down on the strap, which I wear around my neck. The tension on the strap seems to help me shoot at 1/15 and I've had OK results at 1/8.
One twist (literally): with the strap around your neck, wrap the strap around the wrist of the right hand to shorten it to shooting height; you'll be able to generate even more tension between the camera and the neck.
PS- Disclaimer: only try this technique after consulting with an orthopedic specialist.