M Edition 60: the terrorists have not won

[Godfrey]

Leica's PR team offered me the opportunity to go out and shoot with the M60 today. It was very brief and limited to a couple blocks around the Leica gallery in Willamsburg BK, but I did enjoy the experience. Thoughts and a few images here : http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2471764,00.asp

Jim,

The article states:

...And, if you do want to buy a set, be prepared for the price: $18,500. That's a $6,100 premium over the standard M (Typ 240)$7,250.00 at Amazon and 35mm f/1.4 ...

According to Amazon.com, the M type 240 body-only is price new at $7250 and the Summilux-M 35mm f/1.4 ASPH is priced at $5795.65 (lowest vendor price for a new one). That puts the premium for the M Edition 60 to $4960.00 in round numbers, and doesn't include the fact that the M Edition 60 package also includes a half-case (special with strap and strap lugs) probably worth $400+ as well. So the real premium is closer to $4500.00 for the limited edition M Edition 60 set. That's about a 34-35% premium, which seems quite typical for special editions from any manufacturer.

The camera appeals to me, but I can't afford it. I'm waiting (and hoping) that Leica creates a version of this model for the standard production run at the more standard M type 240 price point. I shouldn't really afford that, but I could. ;-)

G

 

[jpfisher]

Godfrey,

I was going by the $5150 price on the 35mm Lux at B&H, but that's for a black lens. The one included with the 60 kit is stainless steel, which I guess would be closer to the silver version aesthetically. That's $5450 at B&H.

I missed that a half case was included. I was just shown the body and lens, but I should have asked the Leica rep about the lack of lugs. Lax reporting on my part.

It's a gorgeous camera. And that 35mm Lux, that's a lens. I owned the pre-FLE when I had an M8, but swapped it for a 50 Lux ASPH when I moved to the 240. Looking at my shots from today made me question that choice. But I do feel more comfortable with a 50.

M 240 prices are dropping. Just tape over the "play" button so as not to be tempted to chimp. 🙂

 

[Godfrey]

Godfrey,

I was going by the $5150 price on the 35mm Lux at B&H, but that's for a black lens. The one included with the 60 kit is stainless steel, which I guess would be closer to the silver version aesthetically. That's $5450 at B&H.

I missed that a half case was included. I was just shown the body and lens, but I should have asked the Leica rep about the lack of lugs. Lax reporting on my part.

It's a gorgeous camera. And that 35mm Lux, that's a lens. I owned the pre-FLE when I had an M8, but swapped it for a 50 Lux ASPH when I moved to the 240. Looking at my shots from today made me question that choice. But I do feel more comfortable with a 50.

M 240 prices are dropping. Just tape over the "play" button so as not to be tempted to chimp. 🙂

I only quoted Amazon prices because that's what you quoted. Normally, I'd buy gear like that from B&H Photo or Tamarkin. Their prices are usually quite competitive with Amazon for this grade of gear. ;-)

The half case is part of the special edition set. I did some research on it, thinking that I might just be able to squeeze the money from somewhere, but in the end I'm too cheap. I will someday update my M9 to an M type 240, probably an M-P, unless one of these goes into production at similar pricing. But first I want the lens, because that will work nicely on the M9 too (although I think I want the older model Mandler design Summilux-M 35mm ... there's just something about his designs... I love the look they make).

I never chimp anyway. I turn off auto-review because I find it distracting. When I review shots, I do so well after shooting a set. One of the minor annoyances of the Leica X typ 113 with rev 1.0 firmware is that the Auto Review Duration set to OFF doesn't turn it off properly, the camera behaves the same way as it does when the duration is set to 1 second. I filed a bug report on that, hopefully they'll fix it when the firmware update comes out.

G

 

[Pioneer]

I am a little curious. Are these sold out now or are they still available? Not that I'll be buying one anytime soon but...maybe if they become a production item.

 

[Godfrey]

I am a little curious. Are these sold out now or are they still available? Not that I'll be buying one anytime soon but...maybe if they become a production item.

I don't think the M Edition 60 has been delivered yet, maybe a couple of demos are out there but not much more yet. Both Leica Store Miami and Leica Store San Francisco are taking pre-orders, so I presume the run is not yet sold out.

Given the price, and even if they sold 50% on pre-orders already, I don't think they'll have fully sold out for a bit. It's very rare special editions like this sell out quickly.

G

 

[jpfisher]

G,

Gotcha on the Amazon thing. Those are automatically generated, generally from the vendor with the lowest price (but every system has its bugs). Our policy is to quote prices for comparison at MSRP/list price, and B&H sells Leica gear at list price, so that's where I calculated things.

I've only shot with some of the longer Mandler lenses; 90mm Summicron, 90mm Elmar, and the 135mm Elmar. My favorite vintage lenses are the Summitar and Dual Range Summicron. I recently acquired a v1 28mm Elmarit that is also quite lovely, but I've not had a lot of opportunity to use it.

J

 

[JPSuisse]

I agree with what you say about Leica's (and Leica fan's) self-denial of technology - until Leica can/ do it.

I also found the article interesting and thought provoking.

It just reminds us that Leica is another "typical" company meaning that they have to make money and have a marketing strategy for their market (in this case niche).

However, I don't really see the self-denial. My M8 takes fine pictures and it is even an old camera now. Maybe new Nikons are even superior???

How long will Leica's niche hold up? Or, how long will Kellogs still be able to sell corn flakes? I have no clue. But, I do think the camera business will be getting tougher than easier...

 

[flyalf]

My take, right or wrong, at the Machine Planet:

http://wp.me/p2RAff-2w8

Dante

Thanks for sharing,

Imo you are both wrong and right. This is where I believe you and quite a few other are faulty. You do not agree with "(1) claims by manufacturers that their digital cameras build on their film competencies".

But looking at digital its remarkably similar to an analogue. The light is captured at a plane by analogue receivers. The photographer controls the same parameters (shutter, aperture, focus). So it makes sense to use the hard earned knowledge from analogue design. Imo the manufacturers that have moved away from a basic layout to control this are the worst in terms of usability.

There is no right or wrong, only a balance between fully automated processes and creativity.

...

Digital pictures do not spring fully finished from sensors - image processing has to happen somewhere to stand in for film characteristics, development, and darkroom work. And if the most efficient or effective place to control/verify that process (in whole or in part) is at the time the picture is taken, then arguing that a camera should be stripped of the corresponding features comes off as arbtrary if not contrarian. All you are doing is moving the complication from a camera to the computer. There may be affective reasons for doing that; you might not have faith in your own ability to avoid distraction at the time of shooting. Were it me, I would rather spend less time in front of Lightroom.

...

Dante

What and when do you suppose have the means to develop, edit and have artistic control of your photographic art: A small box with a tiny screen and limited space for keyboard, mouse, that you are trying to control as you are taking photos, or to use time on composition instead of fiddling around with menus and later at a large computer with much more processing power, keyboard. mouse, a large screen etc have the artistic control?

 

[Dante_Stella]

But looking at digital its remarkably similar to an analogue. The light is captured at a plane by analogue receivers. The photographer controls the same parameters (shutter, aperture, focus). So it makes sense to use the hard earned knowledge from analogue design. Imo the manufacturers that have moved away from a basic layout to control this are the worst in terms of usability.

Flyalf, you raise a good point here. In terms of the system, there are several pieces, and to varying degrees, they are connected to, or divorced from, film cameras. The basic mechanical exposure control of aperture and shutter is the same (and is on every camera), but prime lenses and many zoom lenses designed since digital are much different in design from their forebears, and the imaging part of the "box" at the back end is a lot more complicated than a film holder/transport. You could make the argument that optical design expertise carries over, but aside from viewing systems (rangefinder or mirror/prism) and control layout, not a lot inside a digital body resembles a film body. This was not always the case; early Kodak cameras for example were put together from existing film cameras and CCD imagers.

Best,
Dante

 

[Huss]

Nice write up Jim!
Yeah, hmmm, if I had the $$ I'd buy one to use.