M10 Specs Up

I initially posted this as a separate thread. Somebody complained and I decided just to add it here.

As we all know by now, Leica announced the Leica M and Leica M-E.
Below are a few links to associated sites and such:

All new products A list of all new products announced on Leica's official parts.

New Leica M Official page of the new Leica M.

I highly recommend a look at the Brochure (10MB PDF) and Specifications (1MB PDF).

DPReview as well announced it.

The price of the new Leica M is set to retail at about $7000 USD.

New Leica M-E Official page of the new Leica M-E.

DPReview announcement of the Leica M-E.

The price of the new Leica M-E is set to retail at about $5500 USD.

I will update this post with features I find interesting and have noticed people missed on.

One such example being the new grip, which has both a remote tethered triggering function (with a computer attached) as well as built-in GPS,
And the grip also has a secondary hotshoe, in case you want to use Flash and EVF at the same time. Quite clever.

Another feature is LED lit frame lines on the Leica M. A feature that carried over from the Leica M9 Titanium. Also clever.
 
And still, no one has a clue about the "guts" of this thing - that is; the sensor - until someone (anyone) puts that thing through some rigorous tests I will reserve my judgment on the camera itself.

I hope for an awesome camera but you'll excuse me if I hold my breath considering I don't know of any other camera maker that is using a CMOSIS branded sensor.

Cheers,
Dave
 
Anyone know what this flat sensor technology is about? From a marketing standpoint, it makes the M10 peripheral sensor sound more film like. A Biogon friendly M10 would be nice.

CMOSIS
 
dcsang said:
And still, no one has a clue about the "guts" of this thing - that is; the sensor - until someone (anyone) puts that thing through some rigorous tests I will reserve my judgment on the camera itself.

I hope for an awesome camera but you'll excuse me if I hold my breath considering I don't know of any other camera maker that is using a CMOSIS branded sensor.
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Well, according to their brochure, and DPReview, it is some Belgium based company named CMOSIS, technically the last "indie" CMOS chip maker.

However, there is a problem here.

Leica isn't particularly ... rich, and the company that is allegedly making the sensor is ... uh ... for people who can't afford Sony's massive prices for bulk sensors ... This sensor maker, CMOSIS, is kind of ... budget minded. They have been around only since late 2007, early 2008. So I doubt they were able to build a CMOS 24mp sensor from ground up ... not with those resources ... and it doesn’t have stupidly high ISO that is usable either.

So more than likely, it is a licensed Sony (or other big sensor maker) design (since there has only be a couple of Full Frame 24 megapixel CMOS sensors released in the last 5 years), with modifications made by the Belgium-based company, and some fab in Taiwan is making the actual chip.

Just like what Apple has done with the new A6 processor. Their own design ... but really, it is a mix of Samsung and other ARM designs by the companies Apple acquired ... and just ... optimized for Apple’s needs.

Right now, even if I was massively interested and had the cash at hand, I wouldn’t touch the Leica with a 10ft pole. It is an unknown sensor, and more than likely, it has an AA filter (to make the video usable).

Also, this camera has nothing new. It is four years old features. Canon 5D MkII had all these features, and was simply not a Leica or a Rangefinder, just saying, and definitely far more reliable.
 
bugmenot said:
Well, according to their brochure, and DPReview, it is some Belgium based company named CMOSIS, technically the last "indie" CMOS chip maker.



However, there is a problem here.



Leica isn't particularly ... rich, and the company that is allegedly making the sensor is ... uh ... for people who can't afford Sony's massive prices for bulk sensors ... This sensor maker, CMOSIS, is kind of ... budget minded. They have been around only since late 2007, early 2008. So I doubt they were able to build a CMOS 24mp sensor from ground up ... not with those resources ... and it doesn’t have stupidly high ISO that is usable either.



So more than likely, it is a licensed Sony (or other big sensor maker) design (since there has only be a couple of Full Frame 24 megapixel CMOS sensors released in the last 5 years), with modifications made by the Belgium-based company, and some fab in Taiwan is making the actual chip.
Click to expand...
I would think that Leica would not care if the basic design is licensed from a third party.. most likely Sony.. Rather, I suspect that they are looking for an end product that meets their specs and a manufacturer/design team that can be relied upon for the life cycle of the M10.
 
I think leica did the right thing with "revolutionizing" the m system with developments from 3-5 years ago.
The live view was essential for the use of r-glass with the m and having the opportunity to use zoom lenses or macros when needed or wanted must be heaven for a leica shooter.
Video is just a nice bonus and a side effect of the live view and i don't think that it will be much advanced.
Welcome in the present :)
 
bwcolor said:
Anyone know what this flat sensor technology is about? From a marketing standpoint, it makes the M10 peripheral sensor sound more film like. A Biogon friendly M10 would be nice.
Click to expand...

According the the Leica M brochure, this is the tech of the sensor, and how it differs from conventional sensors. It is indeed more "flat", as in less distance between different planes. Which, honestly, sounds like a Canon technology, similar to what they used in the 5DIII and especially the 1DX. o_o

qCaXz.jpg
 
furcafe said:
Must not be a huge hit in usability. Nikon didn't remove video from the D800E did they?
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That or it's not even using a Bayer array.

I'm somewhat excited about the camera and the direction they are going with the M. The LED frame lines are awesome. I've seen them in the M9T and wow, I really was hoping they would go this way and they did. And it should mean only the correct frame lines will show, no clutter from having multiple frame lines in the VF. In short, I want this camera!

The M-E on the other hand is not a good step forward. The color is hideous and I don't even think the price is all that attractive.
 
Much as many predicted. I'm lgad they didn't call it the M10. It's a fantastic development which is good for all current owners I suspect. Those second hand R lenses just jumped in price. I suspect it will cost over $10k which leaves me content with my M9-P - for the moment.
 
Richard G said:
Much as many predicted. I'm lgad they didn't call it the M10. It's a fantastic development which is good for all current owners I suspect. Those second hand R lenses just jumped in price. I suspect it will cost over $10k which leaves me content with my M9-P - for the moment.
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Um ... $7K actually. The same price as the original M9 when first announced, I believe.
 
I am sure that the new "M" will sell small numbers to the wealthy but Leica has sealed its fate to be an increasingly niche manufacturer. The M and ME simply are not competitive by any measure you wish to use. I was shocked by the lack of imagination shown to us today by Leica management.
Its too bad. I am a Leica fan but its competition in the mirrorless category is now very good with better specifications and much lower prices. I just can't justify buying anything in its current lineup. I think this is a sad day for Leica fans like me.
 
Eric T said:
I am sure that the new "M" will sell small numbers to the wealthy but Leica has sealed its fate to be an increasingly niche manufacturer. The M and ME simply are not competitive by any measure you wish to use. I was shocked by the lack of imagination shown to us today by Leica management.
Its too bad. I am a Leica fan but its competition in the mirrorless category is now very good with better specifications and much lower prices. I just can't justify buying anything in its current lineup. I think this is a sad day for Leica fans like me.
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I agree that there were no innovations per say, but the new Leica M certainly checks every feature anybody has ever asked for so far (and many other features some strongly opposed), short of an in-body sensor stabilization. It will appeal and sell to quite a larger audience this time around.
 
StillKicking said:
$5450 US is still a lot of money.. about the same as a used M9 P today.
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I think part of the ME's strategy matches the new Summarit lenses' strategy: set the retail price to be close to the used price of comparable products in order to capture some of that demand.
 
Fireboy said:
Well, given the choice of $5500 for a new M9 EQUIVALENT (M-E) or a used M9 for $4900, I'd rather buy new. unless the M9 was down to 4K or less, there's no reason not to buy the M-E.
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I completely agree. You're pointing out something I find very interesting. It will be exciting (at least to me) to see what happens as the prices move about.
 
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