M2, M4, M4-2, M4-P, M6 or M6 TTL

[richard_l]

(I think that maybe some people picky enough to buy a Leica sometimes have a tendency to be too fussy when setting exposure?)

Fortunately most print film is forgiving enough for that not to cause a problem, so they will continue doing it.

Wow, the too-tall M6 variant with the oversized wrong-way shutter dial is forging ahead in the popularity poll. 🙂

 

[FrankS]

Chuck, I really like the VCII meter. There is an advantage to being able to take a meter reading and set camera exposure without having to raise the camera to your eye, when you need to be stealthy.

The M6's viewfinder is not as nice as the M2. With the M2 you only see the set of framelines for the 35, 50, or 90mm lens on the camera. With the M6 you always see 2 sets of framelines (but you get more framelines for different lenses). The rangefinder patch definitely flares out more on the M6 than the M2. This was only a problem during some hectic street shooting of a moving/dancing street person that I was trying to focus on but couldn't becasue of the flare. (I should have just zone focussed and let the DOF take care of it. Not that it mattered anyway because I was only exposing the film pressure plate after the tape on the spool failed from my bulk loaded film.) If you are only doing regular slow paced photography then the flare is no big deal. I wouldn't want to do wedding photography with the flaring of the M6 finder though. That could be a problem.

In a way I hate to admit it, being an "old school" kind of guy, but I think I like the M6 better just because of the built-in meter, and regardless of the minor rangefinder/viewfinder issues. There! I've said it. I've come clean.

 

[Ben Z]

I currently have M3, M4 and M6 models. I used to have an MP and an M4-P. Never had an M6TTL or an M7. Of all of them I use M6 mostly, but I think I'd have to say the M4 is my sentimental favorite. The M3 I got "just to have one", dumb as that sounds I confess. The lack of 35mm framing (googled lenses and clip-on finders don't do it for me) and the evidence the rangefinder is starting to come unglued are deal-killers for me against traveling with this camera. I got a rigid chrome 50 Cron that lives on the M3 and I use it around town for occasional shooting. The MP IMO was a huge waste of money, the finish got marked up (not the "patina" people dream of) and I had to caulk the viewfinder to keep out dust. Thanks to the huge price jumps, I got all my money back when I sold it, and bought not one but two M6 Classics and a Voitlander 28/1.9 with the proceeds. I only had the M4-P for a year, it had been overhauled by Sherry Krauter just before I got it and yet some shutter speeds were too fast and others too slow, probably only a half a stop but definitely made the camera unsuitable for shooting slides as I do. Otherwise it was a nice camera and had I kept it longer I would've just sent it to DAG to have the shutter timed (he did my M4 and it's spot on for slides). Basically, there is so little difference between the M bodies, aside from the M3 (finder) and M5 that they're all pretty hard to choose apart based on what they can let me do photographically.

 

[Paulbe]

richard_l says:

<< It's a liability if you don't understand reflective metering and therefore waste time, effort, and exposure accuracy by tweaking the exposure settings whenever the meter appears to indicate under or over exposure.>>

Richard--I guess I really don't understand relective metering. Would you please elaborate a little or point to a thread with more info..??

Thanks very much for pointing this out---valuable info..

Regards,

Paul

 

[Film dino]

This is a purely subjective view: I llike my button-rewind M2 for
(1) the uncluttered view: one set of framelines visible at any one time; as I generally use 35mm this is virtually the whole frame & I can "see" this quite well in my head
(2) its pared down simplicty: no self timer (but of course this also applies to M4-2 & onwards) & exterior frame counter.
(3) its wind-on lever;
(4) Leica engraving on the top plate! (common to M4)

But most of all it's the fact that I don't have to be too careful with it as it's already had a tough time in a past life (with a NYC photojournalist I believe). I know this isn't really an objective comparison of the poll models, but having handled M4 variants & having owned an M6TTl for a few months there's really no contest, for me at any rate, in the "living with your camera" stakes.
Cheers
David

 

[richard_l]

Richard--I guess I really don't understand relective metering. Would you please elaborate a little or point to a thread with more info..??

I've never tried to explain this before that I can recall, but I'll try. I'm sure others could do a better job.

In a nutshell, the meter assumes that whatever you're metering averages out to middle (18% usually) gray.

The exposure recommended by a meter is whatever will render the metered object a middle gray. If you meter a white building and set the camera accordingly, then the white building will turn out to be middle gray on an uncorrected print. If you meter a black object and set the camera accordingly, the black will be middle gray on an uncorrected print. In order to render values correctly (so that whites are white, blacks are black, etc.) you need to meter a gray card or a region of your scene which has a middle gray average value, or just use common sense.

This is why exposure compensation is recommended for bright snow or beach scenes. (Open up a couple of stops beyond what the meter recommends.) If you don't, you're likely to get gray snow or gray sand.

A way around this difficulty is to take an incident reading of the light falling on the scene from the general direction of the camera, but this requires an meter capable of taking incident readings. Of course this is not 100% foolproof either, but it generally does a good job.

 

[Chuck A]

Try searching the web on exposure metering. This should get you started. It is very detailed and has good links at the end.

http://daystarvisions.com/Docs/Tuts/Meter/pg1.html

 

[Paulbe]

Richard and Chuck---thanks for the tips guys!

More practice is indicated for me...!

Paul

 

[Justin Low]

Any of the above—if anyone would like to give one to me. 😉

If I had to buy one, it'd probably be one of the M4s (and variations), or a M2.

 

[Chuck A]

Interesting how the M6 TTl is winning in the poll by a wide margin. Why is this?

 

[Roger Hicks]

Unless you want a meter, M2, easily. If you want a meter, bite the bullet and buy an MP.

I have IIIa, M2, M4-P, MP. I have had A-I-IIf-Ig-II-III-IIIa-IIIb-IIIc-IIIf-IIIg-M3 and have used IIId (fake!), M4, M5, M6. I'll go for MP every time.

And I wouldn't touch M6ttl because the shutter speed dial goes the wrong way!

Cheers,

Roger (www.rogerandfrances.com)

 

[rover]

I love Roger's consistent kick of the M6TTL's shutter speed dial.

I voted for the TTL as it is the newest camera, which means it will least need a CLA any time soon, and I like the logical layout of the controls (read shutter speed dial 🙂).

Simply, if you are looking for an excellent camera which you can buy used, I think the TTL is an excellent value right now (for a $1,250ish camera that is).

 

[peter_n]

Absolutely what andrewch and rover directly above say. An intuitive and logical shutter speed dial, one version older than the latest model so you get a great bang for your buck, and relatively new, so no CLA for years. I just love mine! 🙂

 

[Roger Hicks]

Dear Rover, Dear Peter,

Yup. Intuitive and logical. Unless you are used to ANY other Leica (except M7) or Voigtlander. Or ZIV.

Don't get me wrong. If you only ever intend to buy an M6ttl or M7, they're great cameras. But as compared with 70+ years of earlier Leicas, and the later MP, the dial goes the wrong way. To long-term serious Leica users, that's a problem. That's why I'm consistent.

Cheers,

Roger

 

[rover]

I recognize your point fully Roger. You obviously have enjoyed Leica cameras for much longer than I and developed a style and work flow with them perfected over those years. For you the change should be significant.

Interestingly, I have no problem going between my M6 and M3, no learned behaviors with either yet. I do tend to decide on and set my exposure before bringing the M3 to my eye so the direction the shutter speed dial turns is of less importance. With the M6 it goes to my eye and I adjust the exposure, focus and then shoot. This process is one reason I enjoy the M3 so much, it is like an AE camera the way I use it.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Dear Rover,

30+ years with M, 35+ years with screw. If you aren't set in your ways it ain't a great problem. If you do everything semi-instinctively, by touch, it is.

Cheers,

Roger

 

[richard_l]

.....one version older than the latest model so you get a great bang for your buck.....

Some folks would find that a strong selling point, others are more attracted to the older models, which have their own unique strengths and do not become obsolete, which is so refreshingly opposite the situation with digital cameras, in which one gets manipulated into the mindset that the latest (and most expensive) models must necessarily be the most desirable.

 

[back alley]

see chuck, you could avoid all this disharmony about dials and such if you buy a canon p....

 

[peter_n]

Mmm yes, my personal predilictions are the more modern bodies like the M6TTL and M7, and the older lenses from the sixties and a bit later. I really do like the M7 a lot but I find the newish Leica aspherical lenses a bit too harsh and sharp.

 

[Chuck A]

see chuck, you could avoid all this disharmony about dials and such if you buy a canon p....

I will take that under advisement, Joe. My problem is that I can't see any of these cameras around here. Living in the boonies has some disadvantages.