M5 Show and Tell

[Ororaro]

According to the MP instruction manual, "Intermediate values may not be used."

I remember Youxin telling me there are intermediate values on all Ms. I can'T confirm anyhting, though.

 

[sepiareverb]

Not any more. One of those myths of yore.

 

[dreamsandart]

I remember Youxin telling me there are intermediate values on all Ms. I can'T confirm anyhting, though.

Yes, you can set them at intermediate speed, but they are not truely continuous and acturate in progression as the M5 is.

The M5 is also the last Wetzlar camera with the 'fit and adjust' style of assemble (with the present work force at Leica this is probable a good thing). Having had an M6 and now an MP I can say to me they just feel like a very solid (more so?) made camera.

 

[dreamsandart]

And another picture of a nice M5. Not so 'big' once you have one 'in hand', and my hands are not so big.

 

[sepiareverb]

...Having had an M6 and now an MP I can say to me they just feel like a very solid (more so?) made camera.

I'll agree on that score- the M7 as well. The M5 does feel quite different than the later M's as well, but seems substansial in a different way (no not too big🙄 )

Certainly a more mechanical feel to the M5 than the current MP, which feels more like a well buttered clock. That doesn't sound quite right does it?

Looks like you need one of those special M5 strap holders too 😀

 

[back alley]

how does an m5 compare, sizewise, to an m8?

 

[Ororaro]

Not any more. One of those myths of yore.

What does that mean and to whom is this directed?

 

[Ororaro]

The M5 shutter was an improved version of the M-series shutter with a slightly different design in the shutter cam. The standard shutter on the M2/M3/M4/M6... could be set to intermediate speeds between the clicks but these speeds were not continually consistent.

Speeds can be set to intermediate speeds but they are not continually consistent, you say? I'm not sure to understand this phrase.

Half-speed increments is what I already call continuous speeds, and for any practical purposes, half-speed increments falls well into even the most unflexible slide film exposure tolerance. And any Leica, starting from the M3, give plenty of that.

I don't dislike the M5, don't get me wrong. But giving it the edge because it has a stepless shutter while all other leicas offer intermediate speeds is hardly an advantage. More like 4 quarters for a dollar.

 

[rxmd]

how does an m5 compare, sizewise, to an m8?

The M8 is about as big as the M7, slightly wider maybe (139x81x38 or something). The M5 is slightly wider and a little higher. However, in my hands the M8 "feels" fatter because of the display.

Philipp

 

[JNewell]

Speeds can be set to intermediate speeds but they are not continually consistent, you say? I'm not sure to understand this phrase.

Half-speed increments is what I already call continuous speeds, and for any practical purposes, half-speed increments falls well into even the most unflexible slide film exposure tolerance. And any Leica, starting from the M3, give plenty of that.

I don't dislike the M5, don't get me wrong. But giving it the edge because it has a stepless shutter while all other leicas offer intermediate speeds is hardly an advantage. More like 4 quarters for a dollar.

I believe that official Leica materials say that all of the M shutters (other than perhaps the MP which someone cited above) can have intermediate speeds set except between a couple of different speeds (which vary in the different Leica docs I've read) but accuracy is not guaranteed. The M5 shutter isn't, AFAIK, any more stepless than other Ms.

In real life (tm), I think your statement about half speeds being more than adequate for exposure latitude purposes is true, even for slide film. (That last statement is based on shooting KM and KR since the early 1970s.)

 

[venchka]

Lighten up Y'all! All I said was stepless shutter. If it ain't no big deal, fine. It does make me feel better if I'm using a particular aperture for a particular purpose.

 

[sepiareverb]

Not any more. One of those myths of yore.

What does that mean and to whom is this directed?

Sorry, my quote in the above post didn't take.

I think all the Ms have stepless shutters, except around 1/15

This is the myth of yore.

The M5 can be set for intermediate speeds except "direct below 1/50", the current MP can NOT. The M6's manual states "Intermediate speeds can not be set". The M7's manual calls the shutter speeds 'continuous' when in AUTO setting, and states speeds can be set "from 4 sec to 1/1000 in whole steps" when setting manually.

In practice I have never used an intermediate setting with any M camera, except when shooting the M7 in Auto. The above only intended as clarification. Quotes in italics are from the Manuals.

 

[czamagni]

m5 shutter speeds...

m5 shutter speeds...

M5 manual says that only between 1/30 and 1/50 (=flash synchro) there are inconsistent intermediate speeds. Otherwise, on the whole entire range, the M5 is the only M to have stepless intermediate shutter.
Other M does also provide that, but not at the slower speeds. The inconsistent range varies from model to model, according to the manuals and to official Leica material.
For M6 and MP Leica manuals and official papers say not to select intermediate speeds, but this is more likely because of the lightmeter, whose reading are calculated according to the exact shutter speeds, and not in a stepless way, as it is in the case of the M5. You can verify easily in the rangefinder when moving the shutter dial that its movement is stepless. This is to allow, aperture priority if you like that. The M5 is the only mechanical M to allow an aperture priority shooting stile (except the M7, which is nevertheless another thing). Other metered Ms (M6,M6ttl, MP) do only allow speed priority. M5 allow both.
Gianni Rogliatti in his book on 50 years of Leica says that in M5 Leitz choosen to eliminate the shutter speed of 1 second because of there were no other way to have the shutter speeds to eork steplessly otherwise. That's why there is no 1sec speed: M5 is the only mechanical M to have stepless speeds even at low speeds. Rogliatti has a plenty of info taken direcly at Leitz, were he was a friend (he has a preface of Leitz himself!). Please note thet all Ms have stelpless speeds above 1/60 (I'm pretty sure even M6 and MP althught Leica says not to use intermediate speeds - that's for a question of lightmeter only). I'm not sure about other Ms tolerances, but if I remeber right, the original M shutter has inconsistent speeds usually in two sections of the shutter, immediately above 1/4 and between 1/30 and 1/60 (there are two ranges of inconsistent stepless speeds in other mechanical M)... Well, I should check for that, because I'm a M5 user and don't remember exactly about other Ms...
Regards!

 

[varjag]

Well it is very up to your definition of "inconsistent". Setting up the dial on classic M midway between 4 and 8 might not guarantee that it will be consistent 1/6, but it does guarantee that the speed will be faster than 1/4 and slower than 1/8, with probably very good approximation of 1/6.

 

[Peter55]

M5 shutter speeds

M5 shutter speeds

For me, in practice using my M5, when I select an aperture it's associated light meter needle will move to a specific location along the bottom bar, now all I do is finger the overhanging shutter speed dial without removing my eye from the viewfinder and rotate the dial until the shutter speed indicator needle aligns with the aperture needle along the bottom bar. I now have a proper exposure and it is irrelevant what the shutter speed is. Oh, I do look at the internal shutter speed number displayed on the left side of the viewfinder to make sure I'm not set to slow as to allow camera shake to effect my exposure. I don't shoot moving objects so I rarely use a high shutter speed, but I will if it's required to control the amount of time for the light to shine on the film. If the shutter speed is an intermediate between two numbers, who cares as the M5 shutter dial does indeed allow this for correct exposure.

I always set the lens aperture first to control the light or to control the DOF. My first version 50mm f/1.4 Summilux is sharp at all apertures, so truly I am either admitting as much light as possible or stopping down for DOF, or on occasion seeking bokeh.

 

[Paul C. Perkins MD]

If the Consolidated B-24 Liberator was "The box that the Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress came in" - then the Leica M-5 is most certainly "The box the in which every other M-series Leica ever arrived." Its' beauty must be in its' function - because it is, IMHO, the ugliest rangefinder Leica ever made.

 

[KoNickon]

I'd go with M5 as P-47 to the other Ms' P-51 (or Spitfire, for the Englishmen).

 

[J J Kapsberger]

...Its' beauty must be in its' function - because it is, IMHO, the ugliest rangefinder Leica ever made.

You wouldn't know anything about it, you silly boy, you. It's called class.

I'd go with M5 as P-47 to the other Ms' P-51 (or Spitfire, for the Englishmen).I'd go with M5 as P-47 to the other Ms' P-51 (or Spitfire, for the Englishmen).

The P51 is a sleek machine. Sleek is hardly a word which comes to mind when I think of M bodies, with the exception, of course, of the the M5. The other Ms would be, I dunno, a Fairy Swordfish?

 

[Joop van Heijgen]

Yes.

Over here they've been starting to sell on eBay for under 500 EUR - two in the last month for 430 and 450 EUR. They're cheaper than M4s and only slightly more expensive than M2s. And you get a built-in spot meter and the best ergonomics of any M in my opinion. Apart from the fact that you get a first-class camera, they're hard to beat on price/performance as well.

It's really only the "but it's so big" argument from people that stands against it. It's not about size, it's about having the M6TTL's 138x80x38 mm programmed into your head. These are usually the same people who then put Leicameters and Rapidwinders and Noctiluxes and grips and Luigi cases on their camera. As soon as you concentrate on taking pictures instead of the idea that your camera must be 138x80x38 and may not be 150x84x38, the M5 is a great camera.

Philipp

The M5 has the same size as the Leicaflex SL 2 without penta prisma!

They are of the same build period.

When you uses the Leicaflexes or R8,R9 you don't find the M5 heavy and big.

In the beginning '80 I owned a M5. I could get a good price (DM 2200) for it in Germany. I bought a Macro-Elmarit 2,8/60 for it and kept DM 1000 in my hands..

I still have a M4 and M4-p but the M5 is the only M Leica I want to have again...

 

[ferider]

It's really only the "but it's so big" argument from people that stands against it. It's not about size, it's about having the M6TTL's 138x80x38 mm programmed into your head. These are usually the same people who then put Leicameters and Rapidwinders and Noctiluxes and grips and Luigi cases on their camera. As soon as you concentrate on taking pictures instead of the idea that your camera must be 138x80x38 and may not be 150x84x38, the M5 is a great camera. Philipp

It's very simple here: anything bigger than my SLRs (OM[14]) is too big for an RF 🙂 No Leicameter, Rapidwinder or Noctilux here either.