Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
The finder of the Ikon is definitely the strong point ... agree totally. The best M3 doesn't come close to the brightness of the Ikon's finder!
The metering is a pain though ... in bright sun forget it whether you wear glasses or not. I'd like to get one of the Zeiss techs out here on a sunny Oz day and give him my Ikon and ask him what the meter's reading!
I always thought the advance and shutter were fairly quiet? The Copal shutter is never going to be as quiet as a focal plane cloth type but the advance on mine is fairly silent.
The metering is a pain though ... in bright sun forget it whether you wear glasses or not. I'd like to get one of the Zeiss techs out here on a sunny Oz day and give him my Ikon and ask him what the meter's reading!
I always thought the advance and shutter were fairly quiet? The Copal shutter is never going to be as quiet as a focal plane cloth type but the advance on mine is fairly silent.
Neare
Well-known
I have that personal issue with AE too. I loved my ZI but sold it only on the basis that AE was making me lazy and it started to bug me.
It's a RF made to be used with AE, just like the m7. If you've got the means, use them right?
Now, there is nothing wrong with AE, as Nate said it makes for a fast camera. Served me well when photographing events.
Also, the shutter noise was not that above a leica. It's just a different sound, more of a metal 'chick'.
But a SP 2005 reissue with a couple of millennium nikkors... really, who would care about a meter with that.
It's a RF made to be used with AE, just like the m7. If you've got the means, use them right?
Now, there is nothing wrong with AE, as Nate said it makes for a fast camera. Served me well when photographing events.
Also, the shutter noise was not that above a leica. It's just a different sound, more of a metal 'chick'.
But a SP 2005 reissue with a couple of millennium nikkors... really, who would care about a meter with that.
maddoc
... likes film again.
But a SP 2005 reissue with a couple of millennium nikkors... really, who would care about a meter with that.
... vintage SP works quite well, too !
... a couple of Millenniums... one would be sufficient for me ...P. Lynn Miller
Well-known
I have never owned or used an AE film camera and I cannot use AE on my D70 since all my Nikkors are old-unchipped lenses. So having an AE enabled RF would be redundant to me.
Having a burn-proof shutter has become a real concern for me since I have a habit of shooting directly into the sun. So a reissue SP 2005 is not an answer.
But maybe a vintage titanium shuttered SP would be... but then there is the dim viewfinders and my two most used lenses are not available in S-mount... the Nokton 35/1.2 and 50/1.1.
If I can find a ZI for the right price... I may pick one up. So for me the choice may be... M5 or ZI.
Having a burn-proof shutter has become a real concern for me since I have a habit of shooting directly into the sun. So a reissue SP 2005 is not an answer.
But maybe a vintage titanium shuttered SP would be... but then there is the dim viewfinders and my two most used lenses are not available in S-mount... the Nokton 35/1.2 and 50/1.1.
If I can find a ZI for the right price... I may pick one up. So for me the choice may be... M5 or ZI.
Photon42
burn the box
Lots of complaints about the manual mode with the ZI here. While I agree the Leicas are better in this respect, the Hexar or the Mamiya 6 (and probably the Bessas as well) do have a very similar solution, when it comes to controls and display.
Manual mode is certainly doable with the ZI, but it's best discipline is AE mode. Try it - it actually works and is fast too. For the special cases I go back to manual, but then I usually have enough time. Readability of the display could be better, but unfortunately the weather here helps in not making this an issue.
Shutter and advance noise were never something bothering me at all. Different to a Leica? Yes. Much noisier? No.
Rgds
Ivo
Manual mode is certainly doable with the ZI, but it's best discipline is AE mode. Try it - it actually works and is fast too. For the special cases I go back to manual, but then I usually have enough time. Readability of the display could be better, but unfortunately the weather here helps in not making this an issue.
Shutter and advance noise were never something bothering me at all. Different to a Leica? Yes. Much noisier? No.
Rgds
Ivo
kossi008
Photon Counter
I have upgraded from a Bessa R to a Zeiss Ikon, after comparing with a friend's M7.
Manual mode: I have to agree that it is awkward just due to the placing of the shutter speed display to the far left of the viewfinder and its bad visibility in bright light. Even the Bessas do this better (display at the bottom of the VF). However, for fast action, there's the AE.
Viewfinder: Such a pleasure. I wear glasses, and the M7's 28 mm framelines were all but invisible to me. I might have gone with an 0.58x model, but I didn't like the loss of effective RF base length. With the Ikon, even fast and sloppy focusing gives me good focus, while I can easily see the 28 mm lines even with glasses.
Shutter noise: not as quiet as the Leica Ms, but way lower than my Bessa R was! I have heard the newer Bessas are supposed to be quieter, but I couldn't compare.
Price: Well duh.
Manual mode: I have to agree that it is awkward just due to the placing of the shutter speed display to the far left of the viewfinder and its bad visibility in bright light. Even the Bessas do this better (display at the bottom of the VF). However, for fast action, there's the AE.
Viewfinder: Such a pleasure. I wear glasses, and the M7's 28 mm framelines were all but invisible to me. I might have gone with an 0.58x model, but I didn't like the loss of effective RF base length. With the Ikon, even fast and sloppy focusing gives me good focus, while I can easily see the 28 mm lines even with glasses.
Shutter noise: not as quiet as the Leica Ms, but way lower than my Bessa R was! I have heard the newer Bessas are supposed to be quieter, but I couldn't compare.
Price: Well duh.
bizarrius
the great
Excuse me. i can't see the M6 vote. is this a bug?
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
I sometimes wonder if these cameras get used in the real world before they get released into the market ... even in average light the viewfinder meter readourt is a chore!
I've noticed with mine that the eye position that gives the rangefinder patch full contrast is also the exact position that causes the LED readout to vanish from view ... in many ways I'm surprised that this happened considering how well thought out the camera is otherwise. Even when using AE it's nice to actually know what shutter speed the camera's metering has selected!
This is one area where the Leica M7 is superior IMO!
I've noticed with mine that the eye position that gives the rangefinder patch full contrast is also the exact position that causes the LED readout to vanish from view ... in many ways I'm surprised that this happened considering how well thought out the camera is otherwise. Even when using AE it's nice to actually know what shutter speed the camera's metering has selected!
This is one area where the Leica M7 is superior IMO!
Eric T
Well-known
I would get the Zeiss. The viewfinder is amazing.
Photon42
burn the box
The positioning of the eye is more important with the ZI then with the Leica, also for focussing. I don't know if this just comes from not testing properly or rather from optical and maybe patent contraints. Konica's Hexar e.g. isn't much better here - so maybe they thought this design can be reused, especially as this was not a major concern with the Hexar and other cameras.
Ivo
Mister E
Well-known
My eye positioning is no more funny with the Ikon than with any of my many Leicas.
Photon42
burn the box
No contradiction, if your eye's dead center with both
. Move the Ikon slightly to the right or left while not moving your head/eye synchonously. You will notice that the RF batch becomes difficult to align.Rgds
Ivo
P.S.
Sorry - No Kodachrome rolls left
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
No contradiction, if your eye's dead center with both
Rgds
Ivo
P.S.
Sorry - No Kodachrome rolls left
The Leica's viewfinder doesn't really give you a lot of options for eye position ... the first time I saw the eyepiece on an Ikon I was a little stunned!
Photon42
burn the box
sc_rufctr
Leica nuts
Hmmm....
Go with the M7... The issues discussed in this thread are minor IMO.
Somehow Leica's get under your skin. I personally wouldn't consider anything else for 35mm.
Also... They hold their value and lovely to use.
My Hassy 903swc feels the same way.
Go with the M7... The issues discussed in this thread are minor IMO.
Somehow Leica's get under your skin. I personally wouldn't consider anything else for 35mm.
Also... They hold their value and lovely to use.
My Hassy 903swc feels the same way.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
Hmmm....
Go with the M7... The issues discussed in this thread are minor IMO.
Somehow Leica's get under your skin. I personally wouldn't consider anything else for 35mm.
Also... They hold their value and lovely to use.
My Hassy 903swc feels the same way.
Leicas only hold their value if you buy used when some other poor fool has taken the hit between the new retail price and what it's worth second hand. A new M7 if you check on Amazon comes up at around four and a half big ones ... used mint examples go for $2500.00 or less in our classifieds fairly regularly.
A used Ikon will fetch $800.00 to $1000.00 which is around two thirds of it's new price so I'm struggling to perceive the extra value of the M7 here.
The M7 may, or may not outlast the Zeiss ... it has electronics and a shutter that was designed in the stone age!
sc_rufctr
Leica nuts
Keith
You've made a fair point. I should have been clearer in my post.
I made a general comment about Leica Ms holding their value.
Not about the M7 generally but the older stuff most of us shoot.
Oh and that "stone age" shutter works beautifully. Why change a good thing?
You've made a fair point. I should have been clearer in my post.
I made a general comment about Leica Ms holding their value.
Not about the M7 generally but the older stuff most of us shoot.
Oh and that "stone age" shutter works beautifully. Why change a good thing?
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
Keith
You've made a fair point. I should have been clearer in my post.
I made a general comment about Leica Ms holding their value.
Not about the M7 generally but the older stuff most of us shoot.
Oh and that "stone age" shutter works beautifully. Why change a good thing?
Very true ... my youngest Leica is my M2 from the late fifties and my oldest my 1930 1a ... and I wouldn't change a thing about any of them!
sc_rufctr
Leica nuts
My M3 was made in 1964. She's a year younger than me.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
My M3 was made in 1964. She's a year younger than me.
My M3's from '54 ... it's serial dates it as being one of the first 5000 made and it has the quietest shutter of any camera I've owned ... exluding leaf shutters of course!
They are a thing of beauty and have a build quality that places them above the rest of the Ms IMO.
I had an M7 and although it was nice I never really bonded with it ... I can't say I've really bonded with my Ikon either but I am impressed with it's capabilties!