M7 versus MP

[varjag]

That was a comment in general about the anti-electronic thinking.

Of course there can be reasons other than religious for preferring purely mechanical shutter. Batteries die in the cold, and no amount of spares would help you in long run; electronics is vulnerable to humidity, pollution, and EM noise (unless you build to military or industrial-use spec), analog circuits drift out of alignment at extreme temperatures, etc.

This may or may not be a concern to you, but it is bogus to pretend that electronic shutter is superior in all respects.

 

[sf]

Of course there can be reasons other than religious for preferring purely mechanical shutter. Batteries die in the cold, and no amount of spares would help you in long run; electronics is vulnerable to humidity, pollution, and EM noise (unless you build to military or industrial-use spec), analog circuits drift out of alignment at extreme temperatures, etc.

This may or may not be a concern to you, but it is bogus to pretend that electronic shutter is superior in all respects.

hmm. That sounds like another point in favor of mechanical. MP is my choice between the two. I don't know anything about electronics, but it sounds like the MP is like the Swiss Army Knife of 35mm cameras. It's going to perform anywhere, anytime, and without regard to EMP weapons being discharged in the immediate area.

An electronic shutter is NOT superior to a mechanical one except in my case 😀 where the RF645's electronic leaf shutters' stepless, quiet, vibration free and very consistent performance is nice to have around. I would prefer, however, that the leaf shutters were manually recocked.

 

[varjag]

I don't know anything about electronics, but it sounds like the MP is like the Swiss Army Knife of 35mm cameras. It's going to perform anywhere, anytime, and without regard to EMP weapons being discharged in the immediate area.

Or it can be as simple as surviving after being left in a car gloves compartment for a few hot days 🙂

Anyway, am not a luddite, I like the convenience of aperture priority, and I have cameras with electronic shutters. However I also know that my old Kiev went thru blizzards, dozens of condensation cycles, has been covered with fair layer of frost and still was capable to take pictures. I'd imagine an MP would be up to the beating just as well 🙂

 

[Fred]

Personal choice for me is the M7, the fact that you can catch that grab shot using AE is a definite plus. Not that I've done any good grab shots you understand.

As for the cold, where my D70 suffered the cold and wet of the Lake District earlier this year, my M7 performed without a problem.

Not sure if the MP would last longer either, there are more moving parts that in theory would require more maintenance although it will be easier to get or make the bits than find an obsolete electronic bit. Both M7 and MP should easilly out live the general availability of film though. I would like an MP, I just cannot justify or afford one (famous last words 🙂 )

 

[SDK]

Both the M7 and MP are mostly digital in their electronic components, so they both should have a wider operational temperature range than the M6 series, which had mostly analog electronics. Cold can effect mechanical operations too, in both designs, as grease gets more viscous in cold temperatures, less in hot temperatures, and metal components contract in cold and expand in the heat. In photography, as in other aspects of life, compromises are always being made, even for Leica there is no such thing as perfection.

As for film going away, I doubt that will happen this century, though our choices will shrink and change, as it becomes more of a boutique industry. I can still get film for my Grandpa's 8x10" Burke & James Field camera, and actually can get great color negative film that he could not have had.

 

[Simon Larbalestier]

Both the M7 and MP are mostly digital in their electronic components, so they both should have a wider operational temperature range than the M6 series, which had mostly analog electronics.

SDK can you explain this a bit more for me? the only electronic part of the MP is the meter isn't it? It is on mine. 😕

 

[Avotius]

batteries are not a problem, if they were then people would have watches that use them. My old canon ae1 takes some bizzare sized battery that is nearly impossible to find here and the shutter will not fire without it but still I think that camera will outlive my current canon gear...

 

[kbg32]

thanks for the info and suggestions.. I'm not really looking to buy either one.. at least not for a while.. but I was kind of confused as to why there were the two different models currently being sold

so, it seems that the M7 and ZI are nearly the same (aside from perceived build quality)?

In a word - yes.

 

[Benjamin Marks]

I own an M7 and while I like the automation feature, I find it often disagrees from the incident light readings of my hand-held meter. I suppose I am metering off the wrong thing in a scene. Anyway the end result is that I often use the M7 with the shutter speed manually selected. . . a kind of kooky result. Because of this (and a deeply ingraned illness where GAS is concerned), I want an MP, even though I have the M7. The M7 does have the quietest shutter of any of my M's (particuarly at low speeds where there is no slow speed escapement making a mechanical buzzing sound), but it is louder than any camera with a small leaf shutter (Hexar AF, Rolleiflex TLR, Retina etc.). Mamiya 7 is a little louder.

I think a lot depends on how you feel about being battery dependant. It has not been an issue for me, but if I were going on a long trip to inhospitable climes, I might care. Also: the only thing I have ever had break on a Leica (M or R) has been electronic (dead meter in an M6, dead switches/magnets in an R4, faulty DX reader in M7) and so I have learned to regard Leica's electronics a little warily. Oops, that's not true . . . I had a shutter brake on an M2 need adjustment once.

If I was going to own just one new camera, I'd probably choose the MP. Luckily, I'm not faced with that terrible choice. 🙂

 

[kshapero]

so the M7 has auto exposure but the MP is fully mechanical.. why couldn't they do both in one? the perfect M... call it the PM

They did, its called the Nikon FM3A 😕

 

[Silver]

I had a nikon fm2n...great camera. The mp is nice for people who don't want battery dependance. So is the M6, M5, M4, M3 etc...the M7 is a great camera for those who don't mind battery dependance. Also the m7 has a much more accurate shutter, especially at high speeds as someone else posted...but who uses these cameras for sports photography anyhow?

I like the m6, as the rewind is better than the mp. Also, cheaper. Besides, maybe I'll climb Everest one day.

 

[Way]

I'll be on an Alaska Cruise and visiting Brooks Lodge to view the bears this July-August. I'll
be probably taking my MP, ZI and Canon 1D Mark II. I'll compare the all mechanical MP, the
battery dependent ZI and the modern DSLR 1D Mark II in those conditions. It can get pretty cold on the ship and I'll see if the batteries go wierd on me.

 

[Benjamin Marks]

I'm not sure that an M would be my choice for bear photography ;-)

Give me an SLR and a nice loooooong lens.

Ben

 

[Goodyear]

I'm not sure that an M would be my choice for bear photography ;-)

Give me an SLR and a nice loooooong lens..

You must be going soft.

21 all the way!

 

[SDK]

Both the M7 and MP are mostly digital in their electronic components, so they both should have a wider operational temperature range than the M6 series, which had mostly analog electronics.

SDK can you explain this a bit more for me? the only electronic part of the MP is the meter isn't it? It is on mine. 😕

Hi Simon, sorry for the lack of specificity on my part. I meant that I would expect the MP meter would be more accurate at extreme temperatures than an M6 or M6 TTL meter at the same temperatures, because the MP has digital meter circuitry while the M6's have analog meters. I would also expect the M7 would perform better at extreme temps than the M6's for similar reasons. I looked at Leica's specifications for the M7 and MP cameras, but they don't seem to list the operational temperature range, so I am just guessing here. I could be wrong or the differences could be minimal, if they were all running off 1/3N lithium cells.

Also the m7 has a much more accurate shutter, especially at high speeds as someone else posted...but who uses these cameras for sports photography anyhow?

Well Silver, I wish Leica had an M camera with a 1/4000s shutter (like my Hexar RF) because sometimes even in street photography 1/1000s is not fast enough. Try getting a shot of a bicyclist that is not blurred at 1/1000s. Either you pan with the bike and blur the background or you steady the camera and the cyclist is blurred. 1/1000s is definitely behind the times, and I would compromise with a bit more shutter noise to get a faster shutter.

 

[Simon Larbalestier]

SDK thanks for explaining this. 🙂

 

[Silver]

SDK - I empathize with your desire for a faster shutter speed on the M series cameras. I have felt in need of a faster shutter on a few occasions...heck, the darn thing only syncs at 1/50th (or you can do the top of the verticle frame trick at 1/125 - but I'm sure you know that already) anyhow! I would like to do aerial photos with a hassy 501 c/m, but that tops out at 1/500th, and helicopters are a bumpy ride.

My only point is that some cameras are built for some jobs, while others are more suited to other tasks. Nothings perfect, though I think the hassy x-pan would have come close if it had faster lenses.

What do they say - horses for courses?


Silver

 

[John Camp]

What batteries are you using? I just bought a card of ten button cells (LR44's) for €7.50. No brand, made in China, but they work just fine. Of course that wasn't in a camera store, it was in a Chinese shop and they were shelved between the religious statues and the duct tape.

The Chinese have duct tape? That's not good news.

JC

 

[amateriat]

Kind of a good reason to invest in a leaf shutter camera without any electronic movements except the little leaf shutter. That is one thing I have against the Xpans. Auto film advance.

This is a but odd, as I thought that, given that the XPan is cut from at least a bit of the same cloth as the Hexar RF (speculated at least by Dante Stella), that camera would be somewhat as stingy with battery power as the Hexar is. But I'm just guessing here, of course.


- Barrett

 

[Magus]

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